Hey guys,
Just thought I’d paint a realistic, “behind the scenes” picture of what kinds of results people really see from “big” opt-in lists.
For some who read this, this will forever change your perspective on how profitable relationship marketing can really be, as well as why ”list size”, truly, doesn’t matter…
Check it out:
Enjoy!
-Chris
P.S. The next VIP report (mentioned at the end of the video) should go live in a few days if all goes well…
43 responses so far ↓
1 admin // Nov 11, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Sorry about the low audio volume…
There’s some sort of weird problem with my sound card I think…
-Chris
2 Roger // Nov 12, 2008 at 4:00 am
Hi Chris,
The video played fine here in the UK.
I’m sure there’s a saying that is something to do with ‘powerful words,softly spoken.’
So it’s official?
Size doesn’t matter
I’m trying to count the number of times that you have promoted someone elses product to your list. It’s either - never, or very rarely.
I’m looking forward to the new report, but even without it, there are a bunch of lessons to be learnt just from observing what you do and how you do it.
It’s clear that when running a business and a list, if one succumbs to the temptation of greed, they actually get less of what they are after.
Your lack of greed is what sets you apart and will ultimately provide you with abundance.
Thanks for having the balls to show people what goes on behind the scenes - you are providing a lot of inspiration to others with the same values who are sometimes held back because when they ’survey the landscape’ they see a market that appears to be dominated by those with opposing values.
It’s inspirational, motivational and satisfying to see (excuse the expression) the ‘little guy’ kicking ass.
Cheers!
3 Vinny Vinogradov // Nov 12, 2008 at 10:21 am
well I think that opt-in lists are almost a one time thing for each product, unless you keep on convincing your customers. I rather use traditional advertising.
4 admin // Nov 12, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Hi Roger - thanks dude
The age old expressions holds true, again - size doesn’t matter.
Take care man
-Chris
5 admin // Nov 12, 2008 at 1:48 pm
@Vinny - List building isn’t some sort of rogue marketing tactic. It’s actually one of the KEY focuses of numerous “traditional” businesses.
The world’s biggest corporations grew to their current size because they know that it’s several times easier to profit from EXISTING customers than it is to go and find new ones.
That’s business 101.
Also, I’ve sold many, many, many products to my various lists, and it is far from being a one-trick-pony strategy.
It’s not an “Advertising Medium”.
It’s a client base that you query, and then serve. Giving people what they want, over and over.
That’s how a business becomes successful.
Traditional advertising and other traffic-gen methods are what you do to START initially, as well as continually GROW your list.
But it’s all about “the list”.
Meaning - it’s all about the CLIENTS.
Ask or observe ANY business. In most cases, their survival depends on their “regulars”.
You need to switch your perspective.
If you only rely on traditional advertising and never leverage your current assets, you’ll only grow and profit at a fraction of what you could be.
Which is the main mistake that most small-businesses make.
They have under-utilized assets right under their noses, and they don’t have a clue.
-Chris
6 Steven // Nov 13, 2008 at 12:10 am
Can’t wait for your next report Chris.
I sure am going to be using it with my MSN sites
7 Wilson // Nov 13, 2008 at 12:49 am
Hi chris, since this is a vip report that means those of us who usually get the other ones because we took the vip oto would also get this one right?
8 admin // Nov 13, 2008 at 1:46 am
Hi Steve - thanks - and that is exactly what you should be doing with the Loophole strategy
@Wilson - Yes, absolutely. This is a VIP product and as such any future access members will receive it without cost.
Thanks!
-Chris
9 Graham Cox // Nov 15, 2008 at 8:28 am
Hi Chris,
You are one of the few marketers I bother to read these days because you always provide great content.
Building loyal responsive subscriber’s is what it’s all about and as someone else mentioned, just observing how you market to your customers and provide value is a great lesson in itself.
Cheers…Graham
10 Luke // Nov 15, 2008 at 8:40 am
Hmm, OK, convincing numbers. But list building ahhh….
I think it’s a only makes sense when you are “fully entrenched” in a particular niche and have serious plans to sell loads of products in that particular space.
To me:
Site building is like dating - lots of one night stands.
List building is like marriage. Deep commitment to one place/niche… and I kind of fear that. Or am too busy.
That’s how I see it… Am I wrong?
Luke
11 Terry // Nov 15, 2008 at 8:49 am
Chris… I think I can speak for a lot of your members/customers when I say that it’s very refreshing for us learning/growing marketers to have s people like you and Dave that have integrity and a great way of passing your knowledge along.
I’ve unsubscribed from a number of Guru lists in order to pay attention and focus on your methods. I have four sites up and I’m starting to get some traffic. I have 12 other sites previously launched that I plan to adapt to incorporate Loophole methods.
Thank you for not bombarding us with other people’s ‘latest and greatest’ and giving us down-to-earth and easily implemented methods to work with that work.
So many people just read and never take action. For those that are new, I understand your hesitance, but please realize that the only way to ever make this work is for you to simply… take the first step and get started with something. Once you do, you’ll naturally progress to the next step and… the next.
Thanks Chris and Dave.
Terry Hudson
12 Naughty Neo // Nov 15, 2008 at 8:50 am
Chris,
Cool video! As you mentioned the sound was low. I had to turn on the full volume to hear you properly.
I think the major reasons for your products are big hits are, you don’t hype too much and your products are truly original.
List building something which I have tried and I was waiting for this report for some time now. Can’t wait to get my hands on it.
-Neo
13 Raynay // Nov 15, 2008 at 9:07 am
Chris,
The reason I click through and listen and buy your stuff is the incredible VALUE you give consistently - meaning you could charge more!…not that I’m suggesting you do!
Your brand to me is: “I’m going to be better off for buying/implementing Chris’ stuff!” That’s a lesson in itself.
14 Terence // Nov 15, 2008 at 10:22 am
Chris, it’s pretty obvious to anyone who has ‘known’ you for some time that you deal from a straight deck.
People have come to trust you because you always give solid, actionable advice in a low-key style.
I am glad I decided to get your VIP reports and I look forward to each new one you bring out because I know it will be good.
15 Steve // Nov 15, 2008 at 10:45 am
Looking at the video and wondering why one smaller list converted better than others.
Could be the affiliate was testing.
Maybe those being sent weren’t buyers but rather from a list of some freebie opt-in. You don’t know.
Looking forward to the next VIP report. I bought three so far and enjoy the quick read.
The quality of information is second to none. Think I will go for the oto this time, this stuff is just too good.
16 James // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:03 am
Chris,
It’s refreshing to see an ‘expert’ that actually is real an honest about list building. As one that has been in the corporate marketing arena for ten years, I tell the same thing to all of my clients. It’s not the size of the list, it’s how you treat them! Most of todays internet marketers have become glorified spamers, email you weekly, daily, and sometimes 3-4 times a day. That’s ridiculous!
If you treat your list with respect and don’t attempt to insult their intelligence, provide them with useful information, and stop trying to sell with every email, a list of 10,000 can provide you with steady income of $2500-$4000 per month for the rest of your life!
That is one of the main principles of http://www.thetsunamieffect.com List buidling and traffic generation that makes sense and is consistent. I’ve always preferred the tortoise approach to marketing, then the hares.
17 Richard // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:08 am
Interesting vid Chris. I think we’ve all been on lists where you come to the realisation you’re just viewed as a walking ATM machine - your only value to them is how much they can milk you for. Yours is not one of them. Looking forward to the new VIP.
Richard
18 Kevin // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:26 am
Hi Chris-
Thanks for this. It’s nice to see someone not only rock out a successful promotion, but open it up and show the machinery inside. I’m looking forward to the next report.
19 Erwin Chua // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:27 am
Hi Chris,
You remind me of Joe Girard. The guy who sold the most Chevy cars, retail, one-by-one, at a premium in the most competitive areas you could sell.
He said he got to the top by taking care of anybody who walked in the doors, and made those who bought from him really happy they bought from him again. On the same parlance he kept on building his list, but still gave the same 5-star service to the people who bought into his reputation. What a man.
Just my two cents. Thanks for the education, Chris!
Erwin
20 Luke // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:40 am
Is there any way to apply the “fail fast” methodology to list building?
So for instance, if I’m building a new list, when could I expect to see a return on my time investment? And how could I expect to earn over the coming days, weeks or months?
I think it’s hard to answer with list building.
And so, (from my point of view) as a businessman I postpone it to a future time when I can experiment without really caring about earnings… Some future time when I find a “labor or love” to invest in and can freely share information with my clients.
With website product selling via SEO and PPC, it’s easier to predict how to invest your energy, and what returns to expect, and then measure accordingly…
I buy your stuff because you’re clearly not in it for just making money. You have a personal part of yourself invested in this nice. And you have unusually high standards that demand that your products can *actually* make people cash. This is rare at any price.
Luke
21 Max // Nov 15, 2008 at 11:41 am
Hi Chris
Looking forward to your List Building Guide.
I’ve not commited to List Building for the reason that the most effective means seems to be via product development, and having affiliates build your list for you.
I’m more attracted to affiliate marketing, and I’m hoping there will me enough encouraging info in your new guide to convince me that it’s possible to economically build a decent sized list (say 5000) within 12 months, without having to use other affiliates to send the traffic.
Guess I’ll find out soon enough.
Regards from the UK.
Max
22 Oddvar Meyer // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Hi Chris .
Thank you for this video.
I really think you are spot on, and the numbers do not surprise me at all.
When I look at all the emails I receive daily, most of the mail, I got from “Gurus”, is commercial emails and nothing more than that.
The frequency of the email from those “Gurus” is also very high, but never any information or help in any way, just pure promoting day in and day out.
I never purchase anything from those people, even I want the product, because I don’t trust them anymore.
Other people (like you self) are sending me good content, tips, tricks in a more pleasant frequency, and every time I see those email in my email account, I can’t wait to read them.
I know they are good, even before I open them.
I almost feel that they are my friends, and if they promote something that I want or need, I do not hesitate purchasing from their link.
Therefore, I think you are spot on Chris.
Thanks for sharing.
I am a VIP member, and I am looking forward to your new report.
23 Nick // Nov 15, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Chris, if anyone is to release an email marketing course, it’s about time YOU did. Do you know how long I’ve been waiting for that report from you? (even though you’ve not actually made it yet!)
Perfect timing for me, I am building a new list as we speak and I want to bond with them properly from day one. I know how damaging it is to get off on the wrong foot (i.e pitching the crap out of them or neglecting them)
Can we have more details of the report, like what’s in it?
24 David // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Hello Chris,
Great content, but the “elephant in the room” is building a list outside of the IM niche where no one knows you. I sure would like some info about that.
You’ve established your coattails and trust with your own products. Suffice to say that most people reading this don’t have their own product - and have no chance whatsoever of succeeding in list-building in the IM niche.
Have you seen the effects of Frank Kern’s Mass Control? Now we have “Jonny Unknowns” and even known IM peddlers getting all folksy like they’re a life long close friend. Frank’s technique makes them look like total phonies - but it works for him because of his recognition. I guess he forgot to tell them to spend 5 years branding themselves for maximum benefit. The devil is always in the nuances.
I’m a VIP customer and buy all your stuff. What’s your take on using an “official looking” html newsletter approach to non IM affiliate niches? The only writing styles I can think of are the “newsy” technique or advertorials using the “common enemy” style of copywriting.
David
25 Neil // Nov 15, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Chris, do you recommend using list building with the conduit method? My review sites do not have an opt in because my #1 goal is to get them to the merchant site. I feel it may take away some sales. What do you think?
26 admin // Nov 15, 2008 at 3:00 pm
@David,
I actually learned, honed and developed my list-building methods OUTSIDE of IM entirely.
My first “list niche” was the boarding industry (skateboarding, surfing, snowboarding, etc), which is a tough crowd to please.
You have to be totally transparent and non-cheesy just to avoid being ripped apart, let alone see “good conversions”.
You also have to be someone that they genuinely respect.
So, while it’s true that in some markets list-building is less intensive in terms of maintenance - in other markets, it’s actually more difficult to make an impact.
IM is actually pretty easy since there’s always new content and the subject is always “HOT” since it’s directly related to opportunity and livelihood.
But it’s also saturated and competitive.
Bottom line: The fundamentals of list-building apply to ANY niche market.
Not just IM - not by a long shot.
List-building is only difficult if you’re trying to “convince” your prospects.
If you’re simply an informant that only emails genuinely COOL stuff that your subscribers want (and they’ll tell you if you ask), then it’s truly a cake-walk.
-Chris
27 Three Money Methods // Nov 15, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Hey Chris!
GREAT video. Low audio yes, but great content.
I was amazed when I did affiliate management for a friend of mine who was launching in the health niche… some of the biggest names in the sub-set of that industry we were targeting were involved at JV partners and sent promos out about it.
And just as you show in this video, many of those “BIG” names lists performed very poorly… sending 10,000+ visitors, but 100 or fewer subscribers, where many of the smaller lists converted at 10% or better.
Cool that you were transparent about this and showed your results.
Thanks for another great video!
Warmest,
Jonathan Kraft
http://www.ThreeMoneyMethods.com
28 Anne // Nov 15, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Chris,
Great stuff as ever. Everyone has pretty much said what I’d say, so it’s just THANKS.
Neil,
You are right! Insert a squeeze page into your sequence. Hungry buyer gets offered a tasty free report in the same area as the product they are just about to buy, in return for name and email address (and a promise by you not to misuse that information).
This way, you may lose a few sales, but longer term, this is a great way to build a list. As Chris says, a couple of months can be enough to find yourself 2,000 to 3,000 people. Imagine that on average they spent £40 ($60) with you a year. Do you spend that much with a marketer you trust? Treat people nicely, give them lots of good stuff, plenty of free stuff in between the sells, and most will stay with you.
Go for it!
29 Ron // Nov 15, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Hey Chris
You know for a lazy marketer you sure do a lot of work .
I think my bottom line would be a lot better if I was as lazy as you are : ]
Yeah I know , it helps if you are smart…still takes me 4 hours to do a 2 hour job
30 Kate // Nov 15, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Chris - Absolutely. The key to a good list is responsiveness - and that will come w a genuine rapport with subscribers and providing value (something you do really well!).
Also, your point above. My lists are in non-IM and it’s all about the relationship. I would say especially non-IM - they’re not reading you to discover your marketing schtick or stay ahead of the curve - they’re only interested in what’s in it for them.
I rarely do cross-promotions to them and they’re around b/c of that.
To the person asking about HMTL in non-IM niches, I’d say it depends entirely on your market.
Great vid Chris. Thanks.
31 Internet Marketing Reviews // Nov 15, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Chris,
Most Internet Marketers are on all the lists. Therefore, it only comes down to relationship. When someone gets emailed by 30 people they will be biased towards the marketer who provides the most value, who they like the most, who they are influenced by.
Regards
James
32 Geoff // Nov 15, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Hi Chris
I’ve pretty much narrowed down my ‘must listen to’ list to about four people of which you are one.
I always look forward to read or hear what you say and you deliver every time. the list building information is important because it moves you away from being intimidated by the ‘percieved’ size of the task . Keep the good work happening.
Cheers
Geoff
33 List Size Doesn’t Matter | eZinePress.com // Nov 16, 2008 at 1:13 am
[…] Chris Rempel of The Lazy Marketer’s Blog gives an honest view on list size in a short video. Chris uses an actual affiliate marketing example to demonstrate how one affiliate can out sell another with a much larger list. The Biggest List-Building “Myth” - Ever. (Powerful Example) […]
34 » MSN Ranking Loophole Promotions Sneak Peek | Alex Poole // Nov 17, 2008 at 4:56 am
[…] Rempel posted a very interesting peek into the numbers behind the promotion of his runaway success the MSN Ranking […]
35 Cynthia // Nov 17, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I too have unsubscribed from many Guru’s lists because there is no helpful content…only sales pitches. And I’m getting tired of it!
I see that some of the “Guru’s” have taken to calling us “whiners” because we complain about being emailed to death (several times daily in some cases) with today’s “must have” $2,000+ course. I’m especially disappointed by those I’ve bought from & they don’t even give me a chance to apply their methods before they’re after me to spend more money on someone elses big ticket course (so they can get their commission).
Richard was right, we’re viewed as ATM machines by many of the guru’s. How else can they make those million dollar days or weeks? But it doesn’t take a lot of $2,000 sales to make $1 mil, especially if you have a list of 50,000-100,000 - which a lot of these Gurus claim to have.
Looking forward to the latest VIP report.
36 Frank P // Nov 17, 2008 at 8:34 pm
11/17/2008
Hi Chris.
CONTENTS:
1. Thank You
2. Upcoming email report: Concern
3. MSN Loophole blog Hosting options
4. Hide the 3 links?
I would like to thank you very much for all that you are doing.
1. After almost 2 yrs and thousands of dollars spent on IM education & programs I finally see the light I have been so desperately looking for.
Last month I signed up for PPC Classroom2 three days before finding out about your VIP Series and ebook. After quickly understanding what I have a hold of with your information ( this is what I have been searching for all this time )I found it IMPOSSIBLE to even give any attention to any other IM process. I have taken your advice and stopped ALL the other IM activities to focus on building profitable conduit sites, MSN Money Sites and market your products.
_____________________________________________________________
2. I have a concern about email marketing that others might have as well.
If I have a newsletter that they subscribe to they know that they will be getting ongoing correspondence from me.
If they sign up for a one time giveaway like an e book or short series course I feel unsure and uncomfortable about sending them unsolicited e mails in the future….fear of being perceived a spammer. they did not sign up for future contact. Should our wording on sign-up form or thank you page include information letting them know they will be receiving periodic related info and they can easily unsubscribe?
____________________________________________________________
3. Different IP Addresses with link baiter blogs pointing to our money sites…
I did a search for free Wordpress hosting and came up with 596,000 results. seems like an open field to plant ALOT of blogs. What do you think?
Do I we have to purchase domain names fo our blogs as well as our money sites or as in the case above we can just make up a name @ our free webhost.com?
_____________________________________________________________
4. I found a way to hide the link underline of the three links pointing back to the money site itself. This makes it less confusing for the reader. I think You loose trust and credibility when your link does not go anywhere.
Not sure if the missing link underline in the body is a good or a bad thing…do we want our readers to click and this in someway increases our rank or is it only for the spiders?
Please see my first experimental first site. @ http://ultimate-search-engine-loophole-report.com/
You can mouse over the links and a hand will appear. You can click but you cant see it;s a link
What do you think Chris, a single page conduit review site as a money site?
Probably not the best template for my money site and maybe best stay a conduit site..along with the sidebar.
I am understanding that a article format may be better for a moneysite than my modified conduit onepage experiment.
I did download your template from your last video…most generous on your part I might add.
_____________________________________________________________
Thanks Again / Frank
frankpohl.com@gmail.com
P.S. I think that replacing the word “Antics” with the word “Style” puts you in a better light.
see bottom of http://ultimate-search-engine-loophole-report.com/
37 admin // Nov 18, 2008 at 6:42 pm
@ Frank P
1. Thanks for your comments - very much appreciated
2. This will be explained in the List Profit Formula, however, in a nutshell, a newsletter is like a TV channel. It’s a BLEND of monetization and content. Otherwise, like TV, your readership would simply drop off the map.
3. I can’t answer support questions like this openly for Ranking Loophole. Please send an email to contact@rankingloophole.com for information on using that strategy.
4. See #3
Thanks
-Chris
38 How I Made 5K in 24 Hours With Clickbank // Nov 19, 2008 at 3:20 pm
[…] revenue. Also - list size isn’t as crucial as you might think Watch this video to see why: The Biggest List-Building “Myth” - Ever. (Powerful Example) Just some thoughts for people who feel stuck. You CAN build a business without JV’s and PPC, if […]
39 Chris // Nov 23, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I guess I’m not getting your point. If you are saying that list responsiveness is important, fine, but wouldn’t a big responsive list be better than a small responsive list?
In other words, list size DOES matter. Show me someone who makes a living from a list of 5 people if size is really not a factor.
40 admin // Nov 23, 2008 at 5:40 pm
@Chris - The point I’m making is that responsiveness is key.
Obviously you need the sample size to see comparitive results, but it doesn’t need to be some monstrous “machine” before you’ll see substantial results from your business.
My point is that “building a big list” isn’t the key to success.
Which is a myth that is taught by many, many people.
You can literally rent space or buy a solo on email lists of over 500,000+ in the direct marketing industry, and the results will speak for themselves.
In the past, I had a client that did that in several niches. He was blown away at how LITTLE response exists given the massive potential exposure.
Your list is an audience.
It doesn’t matter how large your audience is if your offer sucks or if all you do is ad-blast.
Cheers,
-Chris
41 List Building 101 - Size Does Not Matter // Dec 2, 2008 at 11:01 am
[…] Read the comments on the video here. […]
42 Blog Flipping Fool // Dec 4, 2008 at 4:03 pm
If you are not building a list, you are definitely NOT seeing the big picture. I can say without a doubt that the bulk of my income is through my list. I have built a solid reputation of providing value. I don’t spam and I don’t send promotions out left and right. Also, I would lose my shirt on ppc campaigns if I wasn’t sending them to a squeeze page.
TomG.
43 List Building 101 - Size Does Not Matter | BigBook.eu // Dec 17, 2008 at 9:22 am
[…] Read the comments on the video here. […]
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