This post is going to be a wake-up call for a lot of folks - and a confirmation for others…
The fact is that a lot of marketers are literally depending on factors that they don’t control and could, for any number of reasons, just up and disappear tomorrow. And that’s exactly what happens to formerly full-time webmasters and marketers every single day.
Maybe you’ll be one of them soon. Especially if you depend on free traffic sources.
It applies to anyone who wants to see automated, passive online profits for years to come - without having to work their ass off every day to keep the cash-flow steady (let alone growing).
So read this very carefully…
A Tale of Two Sites
I’ll let the screenshots do the story-telling.
See if you can figure out which site was relying soley on organic search engine traffic…
Site #1
Site #2
So as you can see, Site #1 had a sharp, nice and steady climb in traffic, at it’s height seeing about 1500 uniques a day - which all of sudden just “dropped out” and petered off into nothing….
While Site #2 seems to have no real pattern, other than the fact that there’s sporadic traffic spikes going well into the thousands of visitors per day. (Even in the “lull” period the site was averaging 400 - 700 daily unique visitors).
Site #1 received 200,000+ visitors in 18 months.
Site #2 received 350,000+ visitors in 14 months.
You’ve probably already guessed that Site #1 was the one relying on organic search engine traffic. In fact, this is a mini-site (only a few pages “deep”) that I built a ton of backlinks for through various means. In time, Google ranked it at the top of its game for almost every target keyword/keyphrase in the niche. At its height, the site was earning about $600 or so in profit per day - purely passive, 100% affiliate income.
So it really sucked when it got “kicked out”. (It wasn’t the only one, either. At that time, when I “lost” this site, about 5 or 6 of my other sites in the same niche got knocked out as well. I watched a six-figure income stream dry up literally overnight. It wasn’t my only income stream or anything - but it still sucked).
At that point, I vowed to devote my time to building authority-sites and assets that would only USE Google and other organic sources - rather than depend on it.
Which brings me to Site #2…
As you may have assumed, Site #2 depicts the traffic stats for a site that sells a product and has built up a mailing list in the process.
The initial “flare up” at the beginning was when the product was newly launched and JV’s, press-releases and general “buzz” were easy to stir up because it was something new in the marketplace.
After that it died down, but sales remained steady and consistent due to the active affiliates that had joined on board when it launched, as well as general word-of-mouth and forum mentions, etc.
All the while my opt-in list and customer list was slowly building, building and building…
And when I finally got back from travelling around Europe, I started focusing on building my main businesses - this site being one of them, along with a handful of others in a few markets.
So I started interacting with my mailing list, which was by then a decent size - and the traffic was literally just “on tap”.
Since then there’s been only a few rare days when Site #2 has received less than 1,000 unique, targeted visitors - mostly from word of mouth, autoresponder followups, residual mailing traffic or “buzz”.
And this site (list, really) ALONE has generated almost ten times the revenue of Site #1, in addition to almost twice the overall traffic in less time.
And the traffic is always just “on tap”. Just one email away.
Google isn’t even a factor with Site #2. I don’t even monitor my rankings for the site, because I just don’t care. I’m not depending on it for anything, because of my traffic structure.
In fact, on average, every time I send this list a mailing I’ll see anywhere from $500 to $20,000 in profit roll in as a result in about a 72-hour period…
No - that’s not a typo.
But this isn’t a matter of being “anti-Google” or advocating one traffic strategy over another. This is just one example of many, and several of my free-traffic-only sites haven’t seen any drop (or gain) for years, while others have literally just totally dried up - and still others fluctuate between “dead” and “alive”.
The strength IS in numbers - but given the results you can see by actually building a client base, once you know that a niche is profitable, you’re a fool to keep on doing “small-time” activities that depend on the search engine lottery.
The whole point here is this…
Are You Depending On Free Traffic Sources For Your Income?
Or Are You USING Those Sources to Build a “Traffic Base” That Can Be Tapped At Will - Any Time You Want?
That might seem strange for me to say - since I coined the “Conduit Method” and even originally stressed the power of using organic review sites in “Confessions”. I’ve been a major advocate of profiting from organic traffic.
BUT - I’ve never advocated relying on those sources, and I’ve always tried to make that clear.
My primary focus for myself, as well as an “advisor” in the IM niche has been to use mini-sites and organic tests SHOW YOU what’s profitable, and then scale up an actual presence in that market with confidence.
Such as: building an authority-site, building a newsletter list, creating a product or course, etc.
Because ultimately, if you don’t create your own traffic assets - your income is hanging by a thread.
Trust me - I know first-hand what it’s like when that thread all of a sudden “snaps”.
My suggestion is that you start seeing Google, and free traffic in general, as an exploitable catalyst for building a client-base that you can interact with, inspire, influence and sell to over, over and over again - for years to come.
Yes, I still create review/affiliate sites and no - not all of my markets are “list-friendly”.
But I no longer count on speculative, circumstantial income that is PURELY the result of another site’s algorithm - which could change at any moment.
It’s very liberating 
Anyway - I just wanted to show you a real, behind-the-scenes look at what really happens in the world of full-time marketing, and why - once again - it always comes back to that old, tired cliche:
The Real Money Is In The “List”
Not exactly a newsflash.
But it is the truth.
As you may know, my upcoming VIP report (The Rapid List Profit Formula) deals with this exact topic - specifically, how to quickly build a list and profit as a result - the smart and easy way.
It launches tomorrow - watch for my email…
Here’s what it covers, in-depth:
* 2 Strategies for building your list lightning-fast, and without spending a dime. One of these methods provides instant traffic and requires absolutely zero networking. My record with this method is getting over 600 active, targeted subscribers in a single day. And the other method is a “twist” that you’ve never heard before, and it is extremely powerful. Works in every niche and doesn’t matter if you’re an “unknown”, whatsoever.
* How to Make a Killing From “Small” Lists. (See my previous blog post for a vivid, real-life example)
* How One “Switch” In Your View of Things Makes ALL the Difference. This single difference in approach and perspective will affect HOW you communicate with your list. This is why one person with a list of 2,000 people will hardly see any sales when mailing for a proven product, while someone else with a 2k list will sell 50 units with ease.
* How to Sell Continually Without Losing Readership or Coming Across as a Cheesy Bastard. This one is powerful. It’s a formula that will always work - in any niche - and NOBODY does this. You will clean up, while your competitors continue their relentless ad-pounding (wondering why their revenues keep on declining with each new mailing…)
* How to Condition Your List For Maximum Profit From Day One. Everyone gets this wrong. They either train their list to expect free handouts all the time, or they’re simply seen as a commission-hungry product pimp. Neither will see any substantial profits. But do it my way - and you’ll be blown away…
Best of all -
Building a hyper-responsive client base that will buy from you continually is FAR, FAR easier than creating myriads of content for search engines - and it will get you to your goals much, much FASTER as well.
There’s really no sense comparing the two since they’re not really even in the same league.
But there’s a right and a wrong way to do this.
Most people with opt-in lists are screwing up and seeing shitty results (if any), regardless of “size” - while ironically being blind to why they just can’t seem to sell.
While for others - it’s child’s play.
And that’s because once you “get it”, it is.
Furthermore, it takes just as much effort to make a killing from list-building as it does to make chump-change.
Discover why this Tuesday…
Cheers,
-Chris
P.S. If you’re on the “Future Access” list you already received this VIP report (Rapid List Profit). If you’d like, fee; free to share your thoughts about what you thought of the report - and my list building approach - with others reading this in the comments section…
47 responses so far ↓
1 admin // Dec 1, 2008 at 4:40 am
By the way - this is exactly what I’m using the Ranking Loophole method for, as well.
It’s a CATALYST.
And, like Google, Articles, Youtube and whatever else - you use it to build your client-base.
The idea is to create leverage - which is the ability to benefit continually from ALL of your cumulative efforts leading up to the present.
-Chris
2 Alex Newell // Dec 1, 2008 at 7:57 am
Very interesting Chris - I like the bit about not appearing “Cheasy”
Alex
3 Anne // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:03 am
Hi Chris,
This is all manna to me, I was scared of all this list-building stuff, but it just began to make more and more sense, so now that’s where I’m headed.
It is indeed a state of mind - just to put yourself in the shoes of your customers, just think about what makes you sign up on a mailing list, and what makes you STAY on that list.
Chris, your message is always clear, concise, with your hallmark humour - thanks, your lists will be ever bountiful. Great, actionable content in the in-box that also brings a smile or chuckle - favourite!
4 fantomaster // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:06 am
Like all your other reports - and I have studied them all -, this one, too, is hands-on, i.e. eminently practical, very easy to follow, interesting (often enough even: fascinating) to read and 100% convincing.
I’ve been making a full time living off the Internet since Fall of ‘94, so I guess I’m anything but a tyro. And in the course of this long virtual career I’ve literally read up entire libraries of marketing advice, strategies, techniques, recipes, you name it. Not to mention tens of thousands of dollars I had to cough up for a lot of this stuff, about 90% of which doesn’t even remotely compare with what you are delivering at a mere fraction of the cost.
And you’re absolutely right - it’s really all about personality “marketing” and being honest and sincere. Sure, many people may not always be smart enough not to fall for the ubiquitous hype and pressure techniques ever and again, but if there’s one dumb mistake any serious marketer should never commit it’s burning the trust they may be in the process of building up which, at the end of the day, is the only capital asset worth acquiring. (And yes, talking ROI here, too - this isn’t about some moralistic ethical abstractions at all.)
Your material isn’t just top-notch: you come over as entirely sincere and to-the-point without being in any way unclear about where you stand and what your own best interest might be in this equation as well, which is perfectly ok.
You obviously know what you’re talking about and you have a fantastic knack of delivering value in an empathetic manner most everyone should be able to relate to. (Your total lack of hype, too, is an invaluable force multiplier in touching your readers within their comfort zone.)
Reading your reports is time and effort undoubtedly well-spent - and if it helps readers to make a mint in the process, there’s hardly more anyone can ask for.
So thanks a heap for this again, and by all means keep up the good work!
5 Cheow // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:10 am
Hi Chris,
Thanks for sharing… I will be waiting eagerly for your VIP report on list building as I have a few lists on hand and will like to see how I can maximize profits from it.
Cheow
6 jbode // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:11 am
The Rapid List Profit Formula is great, I’ve learned more real “usable” tips in this ebook than tons of other list building products that seem to just focus on telling all the ways to build a list.
This ebook tells you the whole process, leaving no stone unturned, thanks Chris
7 Sebastian // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:12 am
Hey Chris,
yes it definetly is far better to have a list instead of being Google-slaped.
I’m waiting for the email so i can get my hands on this report. Already excited.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
8 Greg // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:13 am
Hey Chris,
Awesome post….I must admit that I hadn’t ever considered just “using” Google for my own purposes…..
The impression that I had built up, from reading and from forums, is that we are kind of at Google’s mercy….
Your approach is like a breath of fresh air…thanks
Regards
Greg
9 Greg // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:15 am
Hey Chris,
What’s the “Future Access” all about?
Regards
Greg
10 Guru Product Launch // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:20 am
Great post Chris! Looking forward to getting this new VIP report.
Some webmasters get a little tunnel vision thinking that search engine traffic is the only way to be profitable.. rankings are all they pursue and what occupies most of their time..
I definitely agree the traffic that search engines send should be converted into an asset while that traffic still keeps coming.. because search engine traffic can be gushing today but dried up tomorrow.
Cheers!
Roy
11 John // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:20 am
Oh, i’m curious about this. I always like eye-openers.
John
12 Pyrmont // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:30 am
Hey Mate, might actually buy this product, as I am at such a place where I have built up an authority site from scratch. An although it has steady traffic and the page rank has grown, I would love to tap into other income streams as opposed to selling banner ads, etc…
13 Jose Castel // Dec 1, 2008 at 8:57 am
Hi Chris. Great advice. I am about to start building my list by giving away a free product worth $97. I am working on a landing page where the free e-book can be downloaded and which will contain some offers as well. I look forward to your next post and E-Mail.
14 Ron Eason // Dec 1, 2008 at 9:14 am
Just brilliant content…as usual.
You should know that I have been ruthlessly unsubscribing from email lists from a huge group of marketers.
I have come to the conclusion that the majority of them, including MANY big-name guru’s, don’t provide anything of real value to their subscribers, and merely look upon us as “personal income units” for themselves.
I believe many others will likewise be raising similar barriers to their email inboxes in the upcoming year, as time and excess cash are now at a premium , and will remain so for some time to come.
I want to assure you that you are one of the very few that will continue to have unfettered access to my inbox…and thereby, to my life and business.
You have earned that right by over-delivering on every piece of content you have produced…and I own and consumed almost everything you have published in 2008.
You are one of the pace-setters in the area of publishing actionable information, as opposed to the trend of just producing information for information’s sake.
Please keep up the great work, doing what you do so well. You are serving your subscribers and the community masterfully.
And yes…you may use this as a strong testimonial. You have absolutely earned that right!
Sincerely, a very satisfied student and customer,
—Ron Eason
15 Joel Gray // Dec 1, 2008 at 9:15 am
Chris,
Great post…Looking forwared to reading the report.
Joel
16 kevin // Dec 1, 2008 at 9:16 am
Hey Chris,
Is Site 2 in the IM niche?
17 BlueSquares // Dec 1, 2008 at 9:36 am
I’ve been reading your stuff for a while and I’m glad you’ve finally breached list building as a report.
You’re one of the few marketers I actually ‘read’ in my personal inbox and I’ve always noticed the way you engage your audience. So naturally, I’m thrilled about the report.
18 John // Dec 1, 2008 at 10:03 am
Hey Chris,
Is Site #2 us? And what I mean is, is it your internet marketing “Lazy Marketer” list?
If it is, how well are your lists doing in non-IM markets? Is email marketing even worth spending time on in other niches?
Thanks!
19 John Stanley // Dec 1, 2008 at 10:14 am
Well…
I was one of those who got the chance to review this report in advance.
(since I am member of Chris’ “Future Access” list)
Several things surprised me actually…
So far, I have bought a number of courses on list building by some of the top “List-Building-Gurus” around. And while some of them are not bad at all…
Here’s what usually happens:
- One course will give you the “best” converting squeeze page designs that work… (later, you realize those work only for the IM niche and are out of place for your Weight Loss niche)…
- Another will give you a sequence of “proven” emails that allegedly will flood your account with sales (those cost top-dollar)… but then you realize that after firing them at your “Dating” list, you got a flood of UNSUBSCRIBE requests instead…
I don’t know how you guys/gals feel… but when I use advice like that and try to apply the “proven” templates to a new situation that has not been discussed before, I actually get confused and insecure, because no-one showed me the actual process and mindset behind it, so that I could apply it to any niche or situation I please.
It’s the classic example of “Give a man a fish…” etc
While Chris will not give you pre-defined squeeze page templates and tell you how to set up AWeber, he’s revealing some core psychological principles that create a strong bond with your subscribers (in any niche
(think Frank Kern’s “Mass Control”… It’s that level of quality)
And all backed up with real-life email examples, even with the number of sales they produced (and why) and how to be able to create emails like those following a 2-Step promo process (for any niche, not just IM).
After reading it you may feel that you know how to bond with your subscribers and influence them to buy, even if your niche was “Duct Tape” (a very hungry crowd by the way
I have rarely felt so inspired and reassured after reading a report.
Just my two cents
Sorry for the long post.
P.S. Am off to work on my Duct Tape campaign.
20 Morgan // Dec 1, 2008 at 10:18 am
Hey Chris,
Thanks for your wisdom once again, however building lists and promoting to them is an art and is very time consuming for someone who is not a copy writer or a product developer.
The money is in the list for sure, but one has to be good at copy (which can take years to master) plus product development is no such easy task either if one wants to produce a high quality product.
For instance, look at yourself and how many years it took you to be good at writing and product development, and its these years that have earned you the right to convert your products and build your list so well.
Another thing is in order to build a responsive list one has to pretty much be an expert in that field otherwise why would they trust you, and this too can take years before one is a product expert.
I agree with you fully on that list building is probably the most effective and most stable source of income out there, but its not as easy as it sounds and every one should know that.
One has to be willing to put int he blood, sweat and tears and they need to be told this upfront. Via they are willing to do the hard work they will be compensated very well.
I personally think gone are the days of the Lazy Affiliate (this is not for the beginner, unless one is a super affiliate already)
The real money is in product creation and list building not so much affiliate marketing anymore like it used to be in the old days, SEO, PPC etc is very competitive and can be rather unreliable for an affiliate.
let me know what your feedback is on what I mentioned before, and if you know of ways how to create responsive lists without product development and being able to be a good copy writer, let us know.
By the way… can one go out and get list building outsourced? and if so what is the best way to do this as an affiliate in a non related internet marketing niche.
Thanks again for everything
21 Wes is building solar panels? // Dec 1, 2008 at 10:21 am
Chris,
Great confirmation for me. I’m about to read the VIP report.
Thanks,
Wes
22 sean // Dec 1, 2008 at 10:43 am
Chris,
Awesome post as usual buddy. . .looking fwd to your list building report. There’s noone (outside of ed dale & frank kern)that i’ve not only learned from but actually made money from ..you’re truly one of the good guys in the industry.
Let me know if u ever need anything I owe u!
Cheers,
Sean
23 Mom Work At Home // Dec 1, 2008 at 11:04 am
What it all boils down to is the old saying:
“Don’t put all your eggs in one basket”
Multiple streams of income coupled with multiple traffic sources is one’s insurance when any of them fail.
And your new VIP report is, as usual, full of great advice on list building.
24 Kenneth // Dec 1, 2008 at 11:46 am
The days of Lazy Affiliate are not gone. Search engine traffic is still reliable.
Google dances. Everyone knows it. The secret is to have enough spread in your keywords and websites, no that on average, your income remains stable.
Of course, list building is still an important traffic source. Same goes for viral marketing.
Chris, it would be very kind of you if you can share with us what you’ve done wrong in the websites that got thrown out by Google. (At least what you think may have done wrong.)
25 Garrett // Dec 1, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Dude! Chris… You are the man!
Lookin’ forward to it.
26 Martin // Dec 1, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Hi Chris
I’m a great fan of your material and have purchased several of your guides. However, when it comes to List Building, I must admit to sharing some of the concerns that Morgan’s comment touches on.
I’ve spent around 20 hours a week over the last 18 months subscribing to prominent IM lists, listening to what the gurus ’say’ (while watching what they ‘do’). I’ve also experimented with a few ‘test sites and strategies’, all with the aim of trying to understand exactly what’s necessary when I decide to ‘get serious’ (first quarter of 2009 hopefully!).
I agree entirely with your observations on List Building but (like Morgan) would like to know what aspects can successfully be Outsourced.
As I see it, the downside of having a List is dealing with the constant influx of List Member Emails, and managing the List Maintenance (cleansing / unsubscribes etc). I’d like a better feel for how long it takes each month to deal with such issues ‘for every 1000 Subscribers’.
The Attention Age Doctrine also suggest that - increasingly - everyone is scanning email messages more and more instead of reading them. That less folk are opening them and (of those who do open emails) fewer are clicking on links to check out offers. That said, I still feel List Building is a critical part of the ‘mix’ and no doubt most (or all) of the issues I’ve mentioned can be overcome, providing such matters are addressed, rather than skirted round.
Hopefully, your new publication will include guidance on such topics. Alternatively, maybe (after the launch) you could send a free supplement to each purchaser, to address questions like those that arise as a result of your Post(s) on this topic, or are submitted by those who read your new guide, but need a few more answers.
Cheers
Max
27 admin // Dec 1, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Hey guys, thanks for all the comments.
I just wanted to address a few things that others have asked…
1. Does list-building work well outside of the IM niche?
YES. I literally learned and honed my skills in niches that had nothing - zero - to do with internet marketing or even business.
I’ve had lists of skateboarders, snowboarders, lawyers (yes, lawyers), investors, and several others.
The conversions and readership are actually higher in some niches because there isn’t a saturation of email marketing.
ALSO - people aren’t as used to the typical IM strategies. Like OTO’s, fast-action bonuses incorporated into launches, etc.
List-building outside of IM can also happen a great deal faster if you’re in high-volume niches (such as guitar, etc).
In general, if a market has an active online community (active forums, networks, etc) - OR - if they have a long-term interest or issue - then list building will be effective in that market.
Here’s some examples of very profitable non-IM niches for list-building:
* Investing/Forex
* Health
* Hypnosis
* Mind-Power (Law of Attraction, NLP Audios, etc.)
* Fitness
* Pets
* Cooking
* Music
* Relationships
* Dating/”Pickup Artist”
* Real Estate Investing
* Money Management
* Religion/Faith/Spirituality
* Profession-focused business building (ie. make more money as a dentist, lawyer, real estate agent, salesperson, consultant, chiropractor, private investigator, etc.)
* Photography/Design
* Sports-Betting
* Discounts/Coupons (HOT niche!)
And so on.
That’s a tiny fraction of what else is out there.
IM is just one niche of thousands.
2. Do you need to be a pro-copywriter or an expert to do well with list-marketing?
NO.
Let’s first address the “expert” bit.
Is Oprah an expert at anything? Does she have any credentials?
What about Larry King Live?
Or any other famous talk-show host?
What they are is professional BROADCASTERS. They know how to entertain and provide good content.
(Sound familiar?)
You can become a major influence in any market, even if you’re just a “talk show host”, so to speak.
It’s your tone and approach that set the tone for believability and interest. You do NOT need to be an expert. All you need to do is find “cool stuff” and share it with your list.
Now - in regards to the copywriting comment…
It helps, but that’s a small part of the equation.
One of the myths in this industry is that you need to have some amazing “wordsmith” abilities before you can make money with direct marketing, or email marketing.
That’s a load of crap.
If you can write an email to a FRIEND - you can succeed with email publishing.
(And that’s a key point, actually).
In fact, if you *rely* on effective copywriting for conversions and revenue - rather than simply leveling with your list, being genuine and sharing *good stuff*, you’re already at a disadvantage.
I say this as someone who has seen first-hand the REAL results of some of these so-called copywriting experts when they’ve promoted a product of mine, or one that I’ve been involved with.
The people making REAL money aren’t the “wordsmiths” (solely). It’s the people with compelling content that others TRUST.
Common sense.
And yet so many just abandon the strategy altogether because they’re told that it’s for “experts only” or master copywriters.
Not true.
It’s about being genuine, sharing in-demand stuff, and relating to your list.
3. Is Email Marketing Becoming Less-Effective?
For some, yes.
For others - no.
Most people treat list-building like a traffic strategy, as is evidenced by many of the comments in this thread.
And if all you ever do is pound your list with offers and make no attempt to actually CONNECT with them - of course it will become ineffective.
The “Attention Age Doctrine” is based on an overall resistance to ADVERTISING.
Trust me - if people think that they will benefit or experience personal gain by reading your content - they will.
That is the key.
It’s common sense.
The reason email open-rates are falling for so many is because people don’t have time for marketers who simply view them as a profit-unit.
If you actually give a damn - not only will you have a far more responsive list, you’ll also make WAY more money as a result.
4. Why did Google Kick Out My Sites?
First of all, this was just one cluster of sites.
I have hundreds, and like I said - I know very well how Google “dances”. Some sites have maintained for years, others dance, others have dropped off, and some have even climbed.
But you’re still at Google’s mercy.
Also, list-building can’t be compared to this.
A client base that trusts you can be ethically leveraged to create incredible profits over and over again.
What you’re essentially doing is unleashing ALL of your site’s cumulative traffic since the day it launched every time you send an email.
Because your subscribers/customers are your “active” visitors anyway.
Take it from someone who has a large network of organic sites AND niche lists.
Lists are more profitable as an asset by FAR. Although they’re mutual pieces of the same puzzle.
The Conduit Method is, I still feel, the simplest way to make your first $100k as an affiliate.
But list-building is the FASTEST way, bar none.
Just some things to think about
-Chris
P.S. I have a few “main” lists - and this site is one of them. They all have surprisingly similar traffic levels. That Site #2 screenshot is for one of those businesses, but all three are quite similar.
But I do enjoy The Lazy Marketer business a lot because it’s a passion.
28 Nikhil Gangoli // Dec 1, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Hi Chris,
Looking forward to your report.
I have a list and have paid more money to aweber than I got from my promoting products to my list. So I would like your insights on how a person makes money from the list.
BTW could you give me the links to your other products. I have got the lazy super affiliates guide and am planning to build a site based on your ebook but would like to know if you have any other products up for sale.
regards
Nikhil
29 Dan // Dec 1, 2008 at 3:18 pm
hey Chris, great info as usual.
Two things popped into my head while reading this — number one, how do figure the whole issue of spam blocking/security settings on people’s email affecting mailouts to your lists? Are you seeing any fall back in sales where deliverability has become a real problem? This is one “unstable” factor about list building that’s important to keep in mind and I wondered if you - as a super big list holder - have any strategies for handling this.
And my second thought was - talk about being dependent on forces outside of your control - what about potential collapses of your delivery method? i.e. the recent nonsense affecting so many Clickbank publishers and affiliates. That’s another biggie that I’ve been trying to wrap my head around lately. My conduit sites promoting Clickbank products had their profits fall off almmost 99% within a thirty day period while traffic remained the same. On sites where I don’t promote Clickbank products profits were up about 10-30% within that same period.
Scary fluctuations when you’re trying to do everything “right” - although I assume a list would still help in some situations.
Dan
30 Alan // Dec 1, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Thanks Chris!
31 admin // Dec 1, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Hey Dan
Here’s some answers for you:
1. Ask people to whitelist you. If you have good content, this won’t be a problem. There will always be some loss - but it’s just like anything. Search engine traffic is just the same.
2. Well, there will always be technical considerations. But at least with a list you can always send another email once the problem is sorted.
The control (ie. INFLUENCE) is still under your direction.
And that, ultimately, is what matters.
-Chris
32 Steven // Dec 1, 2008 at 3:35 pm
I think that this is one of the reasons I have been uncomfortable building assets just for SE’s and only have a few medium sized sites. I really am hanging by a thread!
Now I just need to get opt-in forms on all my sites…
Chris I have a few random questions for ya.
How long did it take for your money sites to begin ranking in msn? I set everything up last week but am still not indexed.
You said that you have hundreds of mini sites, what would you say is the average number of pages each of your sites contain? I’ve been building sites with 30+ pages each and am wondering if maybe I should be doing 15 page sites instead to spread myself out more and test more markets quicker.
Are you going to release a report on building software and promoting sites with promosoft more extensively? I bought promosoft a few months back and made a few quiz programs that made sales but would like to take it to the next level.
Keep up the great work Chris
Reading your reports has helped me get on the right track after nearly a year of being lost online and working on things that weren’t going anywhere fast.
-Steven
33 HP // Dec 1, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Great Post. I look forward to getting my hands on your product tomorrow. Looks like it is exactly what I need.
HP
34 NBWeb.it // Dec 1, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Wow very intriguing =)
Waiting for your report….
35 wotis8 // Dec 1, 2008 at 9:02 pm
My stumbling right now is where to source quality PLR ebook or articles to use as free downloads/newsletter in order to build a list especially for non IM niche. If there is a quick research way to scour the web for resources. Anyway, looking forward for the report too.
36 Karim // Dec 1, 2008 at 9:42 pm
“The Attention Age Doctrine also suggest that - increasingly - everyone is scanning email messages more and more instead of reading them. That less folk are opening them and (of those who do open emails) fewer are clicking on links to check out offers. That said, I still feel List Building is a critical part of the ‘mix’ and no doubt most (or all) of the issues I’ve mentioned can be overcome, providing such matters are addressed, rather than skirted round.”
To add to what Chris said regarding this, take a look at your own email habits. It’s true that MOST emails get filtered out, but that’s because most marketers haven’t built a relationship with you. Most of us reading this (I’m assuming) ended up here because we opened up an e-mail from Chris, and that’s only because he’d built up a track record where people figure it will be worth their time to do so.
He brought up a funny point also that the people who use all the copywriting secrets stuff often do that because they NEED to use it just to get people to take action, whereas the people who have a good relationship with their subscribers don’t need to do as much in terms of “selling”. Looking at my inbox, this seems to be the case.
37 Mike Lee // Dec 2, 2008 at 1:03 am
It never ceases to amaze me that you have ‘pump’ out, once again super information for your members. Being your VIP member from inception have made my investment paid for it self many2 time over.
Your approach is well received by me and I am sure reading from the post concur with me too…and that is precise…sincere…with out bluff and puff…most of all it works (that’s true value by itself).
Glade to have been your member.
All the best…
MikeLee
38 Neil // Dec 2, 2008 at 3:01 am
Chris,
Do you use list building along with your conduit sites? The reason I ask is I fear that having an opt in will diminish my sales, since my main strategy is to get the visitor to the merchant sales page.
Or do you create a website with an opt in only?
39 Morgan // Dec 2, 2008 at 8:12 am
Hey Chris,
What about building lists with conduit sites like Neil mentioned?
1. Will people be willing to opt into a list that is coming from a product review page that has no content articles?
2. Is ones primary objective on a conduit site to get a person to click on the affiliate link? or can one have both by having a opt in form too?
3. Do you find conduit sites more profitable than article content sites still? I know the conduit is much less work, but is conduits still more effective? I ask as it seems people are looking for good content out there, unless these are the lookie loos that don’t end up spending anything and want everything for free?
4. If you compare a conduit site and a article content site you have created which one is doing better and why?
Have you stopped building article content sites now and just focus on Conduit sites?
Thanks again for your answers and am sure my questions will help many others out there that may be thinking the same things
P.S Are you still going to be doing some sort of a 6 week coaching course at some point?
40 Peter // Dec 2, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Thanks for sharing the results from your experience. Could you clarify one thing?
From your experience, is the real money made in moving from a tested affiliate promoted product market to your own product in that market?
I know some big players continue to make sizable incomes from affiliate marketing alone. Are you recommending that only be the start and how does the ROI compare with not having the customer support issues? In other words, what’s the trade-off between having to support a product which you may be making more money on vs having more time to promote more products (or promote the same better) that pay less?
Hope that makes sense. Thanks for your thoughts.
41 Nando // Dec 2, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Hi Chris,
Wanted to stop by and congratulate you for producing such an amazing report with the Rapid List Formula.
This is an area I’ve been struggling to develop for some time and you have clarified a lot of unanswered questions that I’ve had.
I’ve purchased many list building products recently in an attempt to demystify this most important aspect of online marketing and your report “hit the nail on the head”.
Of particular interest is the point you highlight about being ourselves. This really magnifies the fact that each of us has everything we need to be successful on the internet… inside.
The way you take care of your list is a good example of how I need to take care of my own.
Thank you again,
Nando
42 Angela // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:25 am
Can I still get into the “future access” list?
I’m missing out on all these news… how do i sign up for notifications and future news?
43 Larry Brooks // Dec 3, 2008 at 9:52 am
Thanks for this post. I really have to get a list started but, I have got so much going on right now it will be later. Last two days have been spent on your conduit thread in the war room and I’m still not done. So, back to the WR.
Larry
44 Dexx // Dec 10, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Chris, I don’t know how you do it, but you are always able to take something that’s been around forever…and write about it…
…and it’s like I’m hearing the idea for the first time!
I had built up a list of 300 in the weight loss niche since the summer, I purchased a WSO for a 365 Daily Emails thing and have been doing that.
Made about 2 sales from the list, though I do get consistent clicks on the initial email…
but after reading your latest report I realized that:
A) Sending out a daily email is more just annoying than useful
B) Sending out a canned template daily email with no personality is like watching a TV channel of pure infomercials.
I wouldnt even buy from myself if I was on that list!
So now I’ve changed things up, and deleted EVERY single message on the list, and plan to rebuild from scratch using MY voice.
I also love the tv channel concept you mentioned in the book and plan to find interesting and relevant new studies, discussions, etc that I can share with my list so that when they see my emails, they know something interesting will have been found for them to learn!
I’m already interested in this approach just out of the fact that while I share new things with my list, I’ll also be learning more about the topic at the same time!
Maybe an additional revenue stream will be compiling the messages together and re-writing them into an info product of my own?
Who knows!
But as always, you rock Sir!
Keep ‘em coming Chris!
45 Dexx // Dec 14, 2008 at 7:03 am
Just an update guys, I just made my first sale from my list since the summer after I changed/revamped my whole email approach!
Now just a matter of boosting subscription rates and cranking out the relationship channel emails.
Once again, Chris you rock!
46 Jon // Dec 30, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Hi,
I’m totally new to all this stuff, but I simply have to find a way to support myself off the net because of physical reasons.
I’ve had it up to my neck with annoying bulk list mailings from someone trying to sell me the next big thing. Something about your “just another guy online” approach to list building has really strung a chord, and yesterday I spent some of my last change and purchased your MSN Loophole.
Looks like things are not so hopeless after all, if a person just sticks to what has always worked in every other commercial situation: just building trust. No bullshit, just trust.
Nice job, I’ll get back with you after I get my feet a little wetter!
47 Mikael Rieck // Mar 6, 2009 at 6:24 am
Chris, I don’t know if you’re traveling or just not reading these old threads (since you haven’t commented on the latest comments) but here goes anyway.
I can understand that you’re at the mercy of Google when relying on anything that has to do with them (Organic, PPC and similar).
My biggest “concern” about the product producing and list building concept is that I can’t help but to see it as another “job”.
By job I mean something that you will have to keep doing (producing products, building lists, sending emails etc.)
I know that you can argue that since you’re at Google’s mercy when relying on “passive income” from search traffic and it therefore isn’t really “passive” but I hope you understand what I am getting at.
My “misconception” might come from not being a marketer that produces products and builds lists and that I am therefore only imagining that it isn’t as passive as search traffic but I have yet to read a post or article that talks about that specific topic.
I would appreciate any comments or inputs you have on this.
Thank you,
Mikael
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