Hey guys,
Today’s blog post talks about what I feel is currently the biggest opportunity for “early-adopter” affiliates in 2011.
Markets where earning $X,XXX per transaction is commonplace, the “offers” are mainstream and sell themselves – and where only a trickle of traffic is needed (in comparison to normal/competitive markets).
The way I see it – this is truly the “final frontier” of widescale, untapped opportunity for affiliate marketers.
I’ll explain why in detail, below.
But first – a quick update on stuff:
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Wow… it’s been quite a while since I’ve sent out a mailing/blog post. Several months.
I can sum up the reason for my “silence” in one word: ActuallyRank.
We literally filled capacity on launch day, and I haven’t publicly reopened the doors since (aside from filling a handful of spots here and there from the waiting list).
So what’s the deal? Well, as members have seen first hand – it’s been quite a journey. The last several months we’ve had one sole focus – building the ultimate system. And what started as a scramble to fix our algorithms eventually turned into a massive operation of a different scale.
We literally built our own “DoFollow” search engine. It pulls in about 1.3 Million URLs a day, and filters them down to just a few thousand that are 1) DoFollow and 2) Pass our filters. To do this, it currently takes 5 dedicated process servers and a staging (relay) server running 24/7.
Not to mention, an ungodly amount of IP Addresses & API keys…
Here’s the key “plot points”, in order of appearance:
* ActuallyRank launches
* Algorithm not consistent across large data volumes
* We manually intervene at first. This involves hiring 53 people short term. (Yes, fifty-three).
* Simultaneously, we completely re-build the system. I bring on the guy who literally developed XML to build a codebase capable of processing and filtering thousands of URLs a second. He’s not cheap (his average invoice so far has been about $15,000 per month).
* “V2″ (our internal name for the new system) is launched, tested, and refined. It takes 6 dedicated servers to to load-share so it doesn’t fall over. It’s insane. The new accuracy % is over 80% – infinitely better than when we started.
* We develop our own multi-layered scoring system to provide far more useful information about URLs, with the help of AttackSuite’s PageJuice Calculator
* We roll out a brand-new user interface, based on feedback. Some functions are removed to eliminate abuse.
* A few days ago, our servers process the largest batch of DoFollow URLs yet (getting about 500K DF’s from almost 60 Million URLs scanned). The data-set is large enough to show us something very important. Namely, that there are FAR LESS dofollow blogs than anyone ever imagined. If it’s inline with our current percentages, it means that there’s only about 1 – 2 million commentable DoFollow URLs that exist in the world. (Keep in mind there’s currently only about 150 Million blogs, total)
* And our system has already brought in the majority of them. Wow.
* This means that ActuallyRank is far more valuable than we’d ever imagined. And it also means that our pricing is going to change (for new, incoming members). Additionally, the PageRank quota makes no sense, since DF inventory is in reality very limited, and the PR quota forces a 5:1 waste rate.
Our members have watched this play out in real-time.
It’s not for everyone, but those who have made the most of their inventory have seen incredible results.
Oh – and we already have 50+ success stories with major ranking boosts – usually just from members building a handful of comments.
Updates on re-launch to come shortly. (In the meantime, if you’re interested, you’ll want to get on the waiting list – which is on the ActuallyRank order page – we have to adjust the salesletter before taking any new members).
Just wanted to let you know what was happening.
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Okay – back to the Final Frontier…
If you haven’t guessed it already, the “final frontier” is marketing big-ticket services (mortgages, real estate, insurance, investing, etc.) in Geo-Targeted, or local, markets.
And yes, I know I’ve already (sort of) talked about this in the past, and on the blog.
However, what I talked about about previously was promoting National/Network offers with GEO traffic. And that works very well, but it’s really just long-tail SEO at the heart of it.
But what I’ve found from my own campaigns – especially over the past year – is that the real money is in directly promoting and teaming up with brokers who can process deals on a provincial/state level. This is where you can make $500 – $5,000+ per “sale”, on a routine basis, and from a trickle of traffic.
Why?
5 reasons:
* Competition. Basically, there isn’t any. You’re competing against busy, frazzled brokers, mom & pop shops, and clueless local SEO firms. There’s the odd player, but in general, there’s few enough that PAGE ONE is up for grabs.
* Conversion. When you team up with a “real person”, you can personalize your site. It won’t just be yet-an0ther lead-gen squeezer. That will instantly boost conversion.
* Magnitude. You’re not selling leads anymore. You’re taking transaction kickbacks. That means that $450K mortgage or real estate transaction you referred (which is just business as usual in much of North America) means you’re getting a 4 figure commission. This also means you DON’T need much traffic. Work with the right broker and you can generate a full-time income from 5 leads a week. Less than one a day.
UPDATE & Note: Transaction kickbacks have legal ramifications in some industries (particularly mortgages & real estate), depending on region and type of transaction. You will need to research these details as they vary widely based on where you are, or where you want to do business.
In some cases it’s as simple as properly disclosing the referral arrangement and making sure that only the broker handles the actual client management, and in other areas it may simply be easier just to get licensed yourself so you can pass deals to another broker and get included on the deal. (The cost and training requirements involved in getting a real estate or mortgage broker license are usually quite minimal. It’s a few weekends, the fees might be a few hundred bucks. Big deal. Keep in mind that lots of people sell real estate / broker mortgages very casually, less than part-time).
* Local Places. This is the big one, folks. Now that you’re representing an actual local broker/business, you can hold an “office” (a virtual one, if your broker already has their own site registered with Places) and gain a spot on Google Maps and, subsequently, the top-fold of Page 1 results for most of the relevant local keywords.
* Scale. You can do this in every major or even mid-sized city in North America, and much of Europe. Think about how many MASSIVE transactions (mortgages, housing, commercial, investments) occur every single day just in your city alone. Now multiply that by several hundred.
The opportunity is staggering. As an example, some of our sites only get about 7 – 10 visitors a day, and yet they bring in about a lead a day. That might sound terrible compared to traditional marketing (list-building, for example). But in the “local” world, it’s HUGE.
One active lead a day (in the right market) can equate to generating massive commissions on a consistent basis. For example, this month we’ve already had two mortgage leads requesting a REFI on properties worth over $1 Million. If they close, then we’ll have a 5 figure month. That is insane for a site that basically receives NO traffic.
And yet, in this New Frontier – it’s just another day at the office.
Yes, it takes a bit more setup than traditional affiliate marketing. But it’s a double edged sword.
Traditionally, affiliate programs are easy to join – but traffic is the challenge.
In the New Frontier, “affiliate programs” need to be created by you (which isn’t actually that hard), but the difference is that TRAFFIC is a cakewalk. Literally, a cakewalk.
In the New Frontier, it’s all about magnitude and conversion. Getting a lot more from a lot less.
Take a moment and think about this…
How many affiliates are busting their ass writing articles, putting up site after site promoting Clickbank’s finest (or whatever other network offer) for $29/sale, in markets getting pummeled with hordes of new sites, pages and affiliate activity every single day…
A lot. The majority.
It takes a LOT of traffic to reach 5 figures a month in affiliate revenue. Traditionally. $10K in net commissions means you’ve sold a crap-load of $40 widgets (or $400 products on Amazon/CJ)
But when you’re talking about $400,000 mortgages, $3 Million life insurance policies, $350,000 home purchases, etc… these are things that happen by the dozens, DAILY – just in your own neighborhood, let alone your city.
In some cases, even referring just ONE or TWO of these a month will equate to 5-figure revenues. And it’s truly not that hard to do. All you’ve got to do is bring in a trickle of traffic. (Something I’m sure pretty much everyone reading this is capable of doing!)
If you have trouble believing this, here’s something to consider:
Despite what you might think of the market, PayDay Loans and otherwise “Personal Loans” are currently pretty hot in the leadgen space. Yes, they’re controversial, and no I’m not saying “promote them”.
However, what I will say is this – in most cases, these services can only offer loans up to $1K, sometimes a little more. That is NOT what I call magnitude. And yet, how much do the aggressive Personal Loan offers pay affiliates per lead (NOT sale, lead)?
$35 on the low end, $60+ on the high end. PER LEAD.
Remember folks, in most cases we’re talking about a $1000 loan, here. And yes, I know the interest is sky-high, but these numbers are NOTHING compared to the numbers in the “real” lending space.
So if a lead for a $1,000 loan is worth $35 – $60….
How much is a lead worth for a $400,000 refinance?
Or a commercial investor lead looking to finance 60% of a multi-family building for $1.2 Million?
This is stuff that happens EVERY DAY, folks.
The only difference between driving “PayDay” leads for $35 a pop VS “real” lending leads for $XXX – $X,XXX+ per transaction comes down to your keyword targets, content and title tags.
Food for thought…
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Part 2 will take you behind the scenes and show the types of leads my sites get, and just how little traffic it really takes to do this.
So stay tuned…
Cheers,
~ Chris
P.S. Yes, this is a leadup to something, but it’s not what you might expect…
85 responses so far ↓
1 Gary // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Glad to see you writing again Chris. Thank you for all of the effort you have put into ActuallyRank. For those of us veterans who understand the value of the service, there really isn’t anything that compares.
Regarding the latter part of your post, I was in mortgage banking for years. I think it might be time to contact some of my friends that are still in the business, huh?
Thanks for the tip!
2 Craig // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:32 pm
I’ve been a AR member since it launched. Yes, there are a few clinches… but getting better!
3 admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Thanks Gary! Lots more to come in terms of additional improvements to AR as well… I’m far from done
4 Robin // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Hey Chris,
This is an awesome spin on lead gen sites and takes it to the next level.
I have a lead gen site in a super obscure market high ticket, low volume offers that is completely untapped and this post has given me some fantastic ideas for taking it up a notch.
Thanks Chris,
Rob
5 Bill // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Can’t wait to read more.
6 Brandon // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Hey Chris
Thanks again for giving away better information than most experts charge for. Clearly you are ‘in the trenches’ and doing what you talk about.
If I follow correctly, it is like becoming the local broker’s commission-only salesperson.
I may choose to take a loss on the front end just to build the site, do the research, etc. but I own the lead-producing asset (the site/traffic) and then get paid for each lead.
Anybody out there doing this successfully yet (and are willing to share)?…
7 Ivan // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Whatever your selling let me buy it already!
BTW whatever happened to your Affiliate Armory?
8 AffPortal // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Been with you since beta Chris. It’s amazing how Actually Rank has matured since then.
9 Barry // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Hi Chris,
As always your information is cutting edge and no BS. This new frontier is something I have pondered for while but did not know quite how to get started. I am anxious to see what is in store next!
10 Bryce Woodard // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Very interesting. It would be nice to get $500 to $5000 for one lead. I’m already looking forward to part 2. Your list is the one list i look forward to reading when I get an email.
11 Steve from buy and sell used cars // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Is this something we can do with Mako Dominator?
12 Ken // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Keep thinking big Chris.
PS. I was just on ActuallyRank the other day and it was open – did I just blow it (again)…?
13 Chaz // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Hey Chris,
Good to see you posting, and I fully agree on higher payout offers. Can I ask, what kind of commission rate are you negotiating in regards to mortgages? I know a mortgage broker pretty well that I’d like to approach on this.
Thanks
14 terrance // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:56 pm
Great content as usual. I was thinking of something like this myself. I think this is the future of affiliate marketing, plus most people seem to be happy with small paydays. Most of the local market courses that are out now don’t touch on this. I think that is because the courses have a built obsolete factor, for either the back end or future courses. I truly believe this is where the money is and also some of these opportunities lend themselves for back end offers with your on products. Once again great post.
15 Vince Czaplyski // Jul 12, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Chris,
Thanks for all your great insight. I’m taaking advantage of the great resources you’ve created for affilaite marketers, including Affiliate Genie and ActuallyRank. Your latest post leaves is really interesting in that the opportunity you suggest is really out there. And the traffic while small is if anything easier to corral.
16 Alexander // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Chris, keep up the good information, would love to read your part 2 … I’m sure it’ll be better than part 1!
17 Howard Tiano // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:03 pm
What kind of percentage of the transaction would be typical? 1%?
Thanks!
18 Jon // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I’m presently in negotiations on doing this with a local business. I expect to make a deal within a month.
For all the reasons you set out, this local business private referral arrangement is a great opportunity. I expect referral commissions to be $600 to $1,000 each.
I have several test sites up and ranking resulting in 1 to 4 leads each week. I use the test sites to sell the deal.
Like you say, you don’t need too many referrals each month to make good money.
I retain ownership of the web properties which means I build assets. If I go with another business in the same industry when the contract expires, I just change the header & contact info and I’m back in business.
There are many elements to this process and I’m working it out, but once I have it going with one business, it’s totally scalable in many locations.
It requires some legwork, but think about it, I’ll be the only referral source for this business. Typically in affiliate marketing you compete with dozens, hundreds or thousands of other affiliate marketers. This way you have no competition except the other businesses in the industry who don’t devote much time to online marketing.
I stumbled upon this approach when I entered into a private referral deal with a global company in my narrow niche. With no affiliate competition, it’s been unbelievably easy to generate high-value and recurring commissions. I then figured exclusive referral arrangements was the way to go and I knew local business with high-value services would be game. I was right.
This model also makes using PPC totally viable also because the business client won’t have an issue using their name and other usually forbidden keywords vendors stipulate. I find most local businesses use PPC to drive traffic to their home page. If you can get higher conversions with customized landing pages that don’t violate Google (and this approach is much easier to stay within Adwords TOS), you can clean up.
Also a term I’m setting out in agreement is I retain ownership of the subscriber lists which creates another asset. Anyway, the potential for this model is staggering.
On a final note, ActuallyRank will be integral to ranking my referral sites. I’m already ranking those sites to show off to potential referral partners. They see the SERP printouts I give them and are keen to make a deal (there’s plenty of details to iron out, but will get there soon).
Chris, thanks to you and your team for all your hard work on ActuallyRank and this latest post. I’ll be waiting eagerly to read your take on the local business referral business model.
19 sharath // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:05 pm
I am really excited for next post……please give more details about how to do this,like finding a broker etc…..Looking forward….Thanks
20 Stephen // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Chris said “P.S. Yes, this is a leadup to something, but it’s not what you might expect…”
I was hoping it would lead up to learning a system to take advantage of this market to make me boat loads of money. Will that be part of what’s to come Chris!
And how long will we have to wait to get to the bottom line?
I’m thinking that as an AR member I’ll have the link juice to make this high priced affiliate stuff work very well indeed!
Hey Jon (post 8 above) that sounds awesome with what you’re doing. I guess my question would be if you’re making money on conversions as opposed to leads, how do you know your client is being honest and pays you when they close a deal?
Thanks,
Stephen
21 admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Thanks for all the comments guys…
Jon (#18) – EXACTLY, what you’re doing is completely on par with what is working for us likewise. That’s extremely exciting – and you will find that the leadflow won’t be the issue so much as the closing rate.
Your broker/guys really need to be on the ball. Calling online leads within 15 minutes of receipt, etc. That is the key.
@Steve, #11 – No, this isn’t a re-push on Mako.
Even though MAKO works excellently for this type of thing as well.
-Chris
22 Stephen // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Hmm I swear Jon’s post I was referring to was #8 when I started writing my comments and now its post #18.
-Stephen
23 admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Yeah, I approved a bunch of comments in queue. I think WP sorts comments by submission time-stamp, not by the approval time-stamp.
-Chris
24 Steve // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Yep — actually already doing this and using ActuallyRank to help. New enough to it that I don’t have results yet, but am building a local real estate website around this concept. Good info.
25 Bill // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Hey Chris,
Very interesting post on the “Final Frontier”, I look forward to part 2!
Regarding ActuallyRank, for some reason I can’t login (since a few days ago). I reset the password but I don’t ever receive the email to see the new one. Please let me know if I should submit a “support ticket” somewhere else.
Thanks,
Bill Z.
26 John // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:28 pm
dang, why didn’t I think of that. Sure it’s more work up front but it’s all about the returns baby!
27 Ameen // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Sorry to burst your bubble but you need a license to get paid any part of a commission as part of a realestate sale or a mortgage. I bet its the same with insurance. nice try though
28 admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Ameen,
Sorry to burst your intellectual bubble but:
1) It’s based on State/Provincial bylaws
2) THAT IS WHY YOU PARTNER WITH A LICENSED BROKER, who then pays you for marketing services on contingency or flat rate per referral.
3) Worst-case scenario, you open a holding company that registers with the securities board as a lead-generation entity.
Nice try though
-Chris
29 admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Bill, #25 – send me an email at contact@actuallyrank.com
Not sure why the password resetter isn’t working, we’ll find out why right now
-Chris
30 Ron Carmichael // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Hi Chris,
Great to hear from you again!
Always controversial & always great value.
Funnily enough, I was just checking out ActuallyRank a couple of days ago because of some projects.
First..
Jon #18, abolutely the right way…own the assets & get client’s to fund their build own. This virtual real estate business is incredibly valuable.
Chris, you and I should talk…
I am in the trading space and going to do some very very interesting stuff, including competitions & TV show with high profile hedge fund guy in the UK.
Plenty of experience in this space & never a greater need.
We have just got 000′s of viewers through some video stuff & now connecting via Facebook.
You are absolutely right..this is not some crank them out auto blog but the value is incredibly high.
Would be very happy to be part of some mastermind to share some of my thoughts & ideas when it comes to financial markets (more trading & trading apps).
In fact, I could have a deal for your devout following around an incredible trading paltform – 7yrs work & $7m+ spent…monthly decent payout.
Let’s hook up.
Ron
31 Craig // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:49 pm
I’m with ya. I put up a “CityRealEstateListings.com” site two months ago.
Just waiting to figure out how to monetize beyond adsense.
Oh, and ActuallyRank?
It kills.
I have a 40 hour a week person on it and their approval rate is running around 40%. It’s all about taking the time to research your response comment on Google, or for foreign sites, using BabelFish .
I tell her “slow + accepted beats fast + rejected.”
32 Danny // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:55 pm
I have purchased many of your products over the years and have always found that I usually get more than what I expected. ActuallyRank is no exception. Keep up the good work.
33 Craig // Jul 12, 2011 at 3:58 pm
At the bleeding edge as usual. My head is spinning with ideas right now. @Jon, Thanks for all the detail in your post. I have a bunch of domains in high ticket markets that I’ve been sitting on. Time for action.
And Chris, thanks for yet another teaser post. You realize we all have to change our shorts every time you do this to us. For Mako it was 4 pairs. For AR, I believe another 4 pairs. How many should I have on stand-by for this series? LOL
Guess this boils down to one main point. If you’re going to get the leads, may as well get a piece of the action too. I’m making $44 per on payday loans. I think 1% of a 400K mortgage has a better ring to it. And the broker(s) will happily pay it. Was in that biz for 3 years and I’d take that kind of deal from a solid lead gen guy all day long.
34 Valerie // Jul 12, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Wow – you must be reading my mind. I was contemplating this very thing. Used to securitize subprime mortgage loans so I know that biz and may be able to scare up some contacts.
35 Greg // Jul 12, 2011 at 4:31 pm
On the edge of my seat again Chris.
36 Randy // Jul 12, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Chomping at the bit to see what’s coming.
37 Franklin // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm
Hey Chris, interesting and will be waiting to see what is in store, thanks again.
38 Christian // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm
This remember me of the book “Acres of Diamonds”
39 Trevor // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Chris,
Having gone through the whole local SMB marketing craze I can personally share with your readers that working with professionals who sell high ticket items is the only way to go. Then after you have formed a relationship make sure to have EVERYTHING in writing and to thoroughly cover your ass before getting started.
I was working with a high end RE agent last year to generate more leads from her website through an adwords PPC campaign. She was to pay the budget of $1,500/month and my compensation was per lead that came from the campaign, and then after that if the leads were closing she was going to pay me a flat $1,000 per closed home sale on top of the payments per lead.
Long story short, the PPC campaign was very successful within 2 months. She saw this and immediately got her attorney involved, taking the Adwords account away from me and then not paying me for any of the leads that it generated or any of my work.
What I think other affiliates like myself are going to realize when they go out into the “real business community” is that they need an attorney to work with them on drafting their client agreements and to really know where they stand in dealing with different professionals. I thought my agreement I used had all my bases covered, I even had my sisters husband who is an attorney look it over. But the RE agents attorney managed to work around it.
-Trevor
40 Jon // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Stephen (#20)
Good question. I’m putting several tracking methods into place. They are:
1. Lead gen – I’ll be capturing as many contacts as possible to simultaneously build my list. I send my client the contact info and if they get the business, I get the commission.
2. Discount code – this is the primary tracking method which I’ve used in the past and works tremendously well. The client and I come up with discount codes used in my promotional materials. The code gives the prospective customer an exlusive discount if they mention it to my client. This tracks the referral. I’m using it in another campaign and it works like a dream. In fact I promote the heck out of the exclusive discount through me.
3. Telephone tracking with a distinct toll free number or numbers. I’m looking into whether this will integrate with their switchboard. If it does, it will work swimmingly.
4. Live chat. I’ll be putting live chat on all of my web properties. Live chat captures contact info. I send them the contacts or while in live chat get my client to contact them immediately.
5. There’s a clause in the agreement stating I can have a 3rd party audit the intake interview notes. Files that don’t specifically ask about referral source is by default a commission to me.
As I go further into the process, I’ll be improving tracking. I expect some leakage, but given the commission amount, it will be worth it. Moreover, I trust the client. If I didn’t trust the client, I wouldn’t enter into this kind of arrangement with them.
I’m also tying in a backend percentage on the total revenue the client earns from specific referrals. The client didn’t want this, but I explained it’s an incentive for me to target higher-value customers. They were more willing with this explanation. I said if I get the same commission regardless the customer value, I’ll target the lower value customers because there’s more of them.
As an incentive to the client, I’m going to work exclusively for them in the industry for specified geographic areas. In fact, this was a prime selling point because most SEO and online marketing companies will work for competitors even at a local level. I pointed this out (I knew they were looking at hiring a prominent SEM company in our area). I showed them proof the big SEM companies work for competitors. As a result, the client became very willing to move the negotiations further.
This model works with offline marketing as well. I’m putting together a book and print materials for the client with the discount code for referral tracking in it. These materials will be promoted offline all over the place.
It’s much easier to sell the arrangement if you have local sites ranking. Show prospective clients printouts of Google listing pages and highlight your listings in the SERPs. It’s a risk on your part to build these sites and rank them, but even one of these deals can be extremely lucrative. Worst case scenario, you can lease the site for cheap or do leadgen and leave it at that.
Treat your meetings with potential clients as a professional sales call. I put folders together containing their competition and their website stats explaining how I could do it better (with my sites’ ranking data front and center as proof). I had sample videos created explaining how YouTube is totally untapped in the industry. I said I could create dozens of videos and an entire YouTube channel for them (of which I retain ownership). I also discussed Facebook and that I would build FB pages for them and be active on it. Business owners know about this stuff, but not the details. They want it, but don’t know who to hire and how to do it. Give them a risk-free method to get business offline, and they’ll be interested.
I hammered home the point that it’s a no-risk proposition because they pay me when they get new business. In fact, they’re welcome to use other SEM companies at the same time if they don’t want to put all their eggs in one basket.
As for closing rate, the discount code helps. I also have a term in the agreement that the client makes every best effort to call prospects within 24 hours and meet them within 48 hours. This won’t happen everytime, but I know this industry and I know the closing rates. If my lead gen leads aren’t closing, I’ll know something is awry. Besides, in the industry I’m targeting, businesses are fast to respond because the value of a customer is a minimum 4 figures and can be 6 figures. They don’t waste time.
If the client won’t put the tracking discount code on their site, then don’t promote their site. Drive all traffic to the sites you own and use to promote their business.
At the end of the day, this model is a perfect solution for some local businesses. I know for a fact that most local businesses don’t dedicate enough resources to online marketing to get all the business they can. I’m filling in the gap – I’m their exclusive marketing department that gets paid when they get paid.
41 admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Trevor, that sucks man.
All I can say is that the biggest factor in all this is working with someone you can trust.
It’s too bad that the realtor pulled an asshole move like that.
In the future, what you’ll want to make sure you do, in addition to the legal help, is to control everything.
You own the domains, you own the sites, you control the hosting, you own the email lists, etc.
If they try pulling something like that again, then good-bye leadflow.
There’s alot of punks out there, for sure.
The key is to find someone you like, who has a good reputation. It’s easier said than done, I know.
But it’s essential.
That realtor was completely short-sighted. You could have worked with them to build an entire f-ing network of sites, gotten into co-brokered sales in different regions, etc.
People who think they’re playing “hardball” don’t realize that they’re burning their own bridges.
They do it enough times and pretty soon they’re an island.
At least you’ve proved the concept to yourself.
Now go and work with their most capable competitor (with an impenetrable agreement, where YOU control all the properties).
That’s what I’ve done when someone’s screwed me over in the past. I just go to their competitors
(Did that a few years ago when I was pushing a forex platform… and made a crapload more as a result in the end).
-Chris
42 Stephen // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Hi Chris…
…I like the way you think!
Borrowing isn’t what it used to be, as you probably know, so you may just have a whale by the tail.
Thanks!
43 Jon // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Trevor (#39)
Excellent point and one to be very cognizant of.
That’s why the focus of my promotion will be through the sites I own rather than the client’s site. For example, all PPC campaigns will go to my sites. Same thing with organic traffic and other traffic generation methods.
All domains will be generic rather than the client’s business name. Same thing with social media properties such as YouTube channels and FB pages. It’s all about totally controlling the flow of referrals through your own properties.
If there’s a disagreement or breach, I just take the arrangement to a competitor.
Have all the terms of the agreement spelled out carefully and reviewed by a business attorney. Hire the attorney so you’re covered with professional negligence insurance in the event the deal goes badly. Avoid getting a free read; instead formally retain the attorney so you’re covered with their insurance.
44 Jeremy // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Brilliant share mate, dealt with the sanctimonious mortgage guru as well.
45 admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@ Stephen (42)
You’re definitely right, it is very much a different game now.
In Canada, which is where I deal with for this stuff, it hasn’t really changed that much, but in the US it’s – obviously – a lot more regulated now.
Which is a good thing.
What this has created though is A LOT MORE “B-Side” stuff. Nontraditional lenders, creative financing, private lenders/hardmoney, etc.
You don’t really make too much money from the rate-hunters. It’s nice and consistent, but they also have no loyalty, and they’re harder leads to close.
Where it’s at are people with complicated situations (of which there are many!) where a GOOD broker can put together deals with botique lenders, multi-structured stuff, etc.
THAT is where the money is.
So with that in mind – and the right broker – the current situation is, as one commenter put it, “A Field of Diamonds”.
Cheers
-Chris
46 Brittany // Jul 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm
How much is this going to cost us to learn/be able to do?
A few hundred or a few thousand?
Just want to know so I can either get the money together or just forget about it altogether.
And will your program cover some of the legal aspects of doing this sort of thing as well as being able to verify that the leads you’re getting are closing so you don’t get screwed out of the commission?
47 Stephen // Jul 12, 2011 at 7:33 pm
@Jon (post 40) awesome post my friend, you really have your ducks in a row. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the class!
-Stephen
48 Stephen // Jul 12, 2011 at 7:35 pm
@ Brittany (post 46) – I think Chris said it was going to be $4,995.00, but free for AR members. Did I get that right Chris?
-Stephen
(current AR member)
49 Greg // Jul 12, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Great post by Chris and great comments. Looking forward to part 2.
50 Dan B Cauthron // Jul 12, 2011 at 8:02 pm
Beats hell out of pimping cars and airplanes for eBay.
Wishing all the best
Dan B. Cauthron
51 Grantola // Jul 12, 2011 at 8:21 pm
@Dan B – pimpin’ ain’t easy.
Mr. Rempel,
Anyway one could be a little industrious and get started now? Perhaps I could start contacting mortgage brokers, insurance brokers, realtors, etc.? My sister is a local lawyer in town and she know a ton of people and could make introductions. You know, start greasing the wheels of commerce. Smoke cigars in some seedy back room, make a few deals, come up with a secret handshake and a promise to deliver some nice lead flow. Muahahahah! (evil laugh)
52 Lana // Jul 12, 2011 at 8:26 pm
Hi Chris,
Thanks for presenting these ideas. I really haven’t ventured into the local space yet, as I am caught up trying to make my affiliate/adsense sites work. Basically, I want to establish a good base level income through affiliate/adsense revenue, to the point where I don’t have worry too much about providing for the family. The money is definitely coming in, and I want to maintain focus. Standard affiliate programs make it easy to handle the monetization part of a website.
I figure that with the skills I have now, I should be able to connect with local businesses/ big ticket item brokers to make a good living. However, I don’t know how long it is going to take to find the right people and get the contracts signed.
The hardest part is putting a system in place to contact, find, and sign contracts with the right local business brokers/owners to partner up with. If you ever come up with a product that teaches step by step the easiest way to set up these local “affiliate” programs (and be legally protected), I think it will be a winner.
- Lana
53 Chris // Jul 12, 2011 at 9:02 pm
“* Competition. Basically, there isn’t any.”
really? I have my doubts, maybe for the super-small towns.
convince us.
54 mohan // Jul 12, 2011 at 10:15 pm
Hello Chris:
The local opportunity that you mentioned is really good and we can earn lot of bucks. It will be easy for affiliates in the US to do it, but how about me like from Bangalore, India? How can I tap the just coming up mobile/local opportunities in the US from here? Any tips? I am also an affiliate, but not from US. How can we make some money from here by tapping the US mortgage/lead gen market, or even local mobile opportunity.
55 Neeraj // Jul 13, 2011 at 12:09 am
Final frontier: Everything is fine but one doubt. Why would a lender or broker pay $500 for a lead? When they can buy leads at cheaper rates from LeadPoint.com and other networks. Some networks sell leads for $15.
56 Ellery // Jul 13, 2011 at 1:14 am
Miss you and your post Chris. What you said is quite similar to doing jv with brokers. I like this idea.
Looking forward to read your part two.
57 aceguitarlessons // Jul 13, 2011 at 3:11 am
Hey Chris! Did you know “The Final Frontier” is the name of the new Iron Maiden album?
It’s a more progressive album for Maiden but the songs still rock!
So is this new method of yours shockingly effective as well as “Brain-Dead” simple to use? I bet it is!
58 Chris C // Jul 13, 2011 at 4:21 am
I can definitely vouch for the statement that there is basically no competition. If you go after keywords like “houses for sale in xxx” there are virtually no competition and this doesn’t apply to the US and Europe only..there are tons of golden keywords like this available in virtually every big city in the world.
59 Rich Peck // Jul 13, 2011 at 5:03 am
Don’t get me wrong Chris, I love and value everything you do, however I can’t help thinking that this isn’t such a revelation.
The reason I say this is because Estate Agents work in a similar way – they cultivate a brand in a local area, and then sell houses for a commission. Likewise with the numerous “compare the insurance market” sites that are out there – they do the same.
I’m eagerly awaiting Part 2, because I think this type of model could be applied on a MUCH larger scale. For example, instead of just focusing your efforts on Google – what’s to stop you creating a resource website for the local area, and then market it in a similar way of Estate Agents – through local news papers and PPC. This way, you could create a truly valuable asset that has more income than just the trickle of visitors through the search engines and could exponentially increase your business’ yield. I know you don’t like this, but you could even plug the business in networking events and the like.
It depends on the market I guess. I think I’ve seen the site you’re making bank with (I’m not going to reveal don’t worry), and the market is definitely suited to SEO. However, if you wanted to sell mortgages and other high ticket items, I’m thinking that this principle **could** be leveraged in the sense of creating a nice niche business out of it.
For example, my dad is going to retire next year, and I was at a networking event last month. There, amongst the dregs of corporate lawyers and accountants, I got talking to a financial planner who specialized in pensions. Needless to say that although she was good, what’s to say that I couldn’t act like a middle-man for her and say that I’ll give leads to qualified people for a kick back.
I’ve got ideas already!
60 Peter // Jul 13, 2011 at 6:28 am
Hi Chris, just wanted to thank you for the stimulating content in this post. I have slid down from high ticket to lower ticket stuff and had been looking to go back to the big stuff. In the early 2000′s I made some $2000 – $7000 commissions in the property industry but that was pre-recession & mainly off-line. Just a phone call & a cup of tea in one instance! I’m now looking to get back into the big stuff for when the recession is over. Look forwards to your new product/service!
Thanks also to the great comments here, especially Jon’s very useful comments.
61 hil // Jul 13, 2011 at 6:45 am
Re: Jon // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm post – 40
I don’t get it, what sort of incentive does one offer on a lead generation or more bluntly, ‘Squeeze page’ on a high ticket item/ “Free report” on getting a mortgage
“Free report” on buying a luxury yacht?
I find it hard to believe that someone who is considering a purchase in the 1 2 3 or $4000,000+ category would take a site with a bribe to fill in an “opt in” box terribly seriously.
4. Live chat
Once again, someone who is buying such a high ticket item is not stupid. They would realise that
a “live chat” is simply going through some call centre. So what could the person on the other end of the “live chat” really know about the product or service in question.
Re.admin // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm
How would you work a local deal with a Forex Company if it was an online broker with an online platform. The market they are targeting is usually global and thus the keywords they would be targeting would very competitive in the Forex market.
Targeting of local businesses that have high ticket price points like real estate agents seemed
like a good idea to me.
I tried this with Real Estate agents by targeting a particular area.
The area I targeted as test case was a regional area in Victoria Australia called “Heyfield”.
I dominated the first 2-3 pages of Google with web properties for keyword phrase “Houses for sale Heyfield”
I deal with a lot of real estate agents through my window listings display business.
So I put together a PDF extolling the virtues of the system along with screen shots for proof and sent it to about 10 agents basically saying I can do this for them in their area.
They were all receptive when I told them about the concept but do you think I could get them to go through the PDF?
After about the 12th phone call it just became embarrassing, like the guy that just can’t take a hint form the high school princess. They were simply not that committed enough to read the damn PDF.
In hind sight it would have been a mammoth task anyway. Because there is no recorded search volume, on keyword phrases like
“Houses for sale Heyfield” you have to assume on what keyword phrases people are searching and thus the combinations could be endless:
“Heyfield houses for sale” “apartments for sale Heyfield” “Housing units etc.” “Villa units etc” ‘flats etc” “land” “farms”…..it could go on and on.
Multiplied by all the combinations and it becomes gigantic conglomerate of web 2.0 properties.
I will possibly be shot down for making this post and I don’t want to appear negative but I would certainly welcome any responses.
62 Nick Johnson // Jul 13, 2011 at 6:58 am
Glad to see you are back I had assumed you had gone surfing down in Mexico permanently.
@Trevor (#39). Unfortuneayely this is how the Bricks and Mortar world works, the handshake agreement that is common amongst the internet community doesn’t work out there.
I’ve been in sales all my life and the one thing I know is make certain you protect your intellectual property what ever it is. As a simple example if you have an architect draw up a house plan for you unless you specifically get ownership in the contract he can use them for ever.
On the cheerful side, having done it once you can replicate it using a more generic option as Jon has detailed, go to her opposition and help them stick it to her. Commercial revenge is the best paymaster IMHO.
As everyone knows the money is in the list.
@Chris, looking forward to some of your ideas on possible markets.
Regards
Nick
63 Malcolm // Jul 13, 2011 at 7:47 am
Hi Guys
If anybody is willing and able, please post a link to a good legal document that any of us could use as a BASIS to give to our attorney – to help prevent disappointment and being screwed further down the road.
Great blog!
64 Jon // Jul 13, 2011 at 10:57 am
Hil (#52)
Thanks for your feedback and opinion. It’s good food for thought.
I appreciate that lead gen and live chat may not appear as viable options.
However, the arrangement I’m going into (still hammering out the details) permits me to actually have the client’s name, logo, and contact info on my sites. In other words, for all intent and purposes, customers believe they are the actual client’s site.
The client wants this because it expands their brand and generates business while I retain ownership. It’s not some anonymous landing page or anonymous site. I agree with you that an anonymous “San Diego Yacht Buying Info” website would not convert as well as actually presenting the site as a specific yacht broker’s site with free reports having the broker’s name as author (under a license agreement).
Lead gen works with the right give-aways and the fact customers are, for all intent and purposes, on the client site. The reports are licensed to the client (I retain ownership) and have the client as the author. I have sites up and running and people subscribe. I know the market and know what people want to know. It really helps to know the market well. It doesn’t take long to get up to speed.
I haven’t put my mind to the broker industry so I’m not sure whether lead gen would work. The point I take home from Chris’ post is that there are several industries where entering into private and exclusive referral arrangements at the local level can work and result in higher commissions. It’s about actually running sites that appear to be your client’s sites. You just promote the sites and get business for the client doing your best to track the business generated.
With respect to live chat, I’ve tested it and it works. Like I said above, the sites are the client sites with their header/logo etc. In fact, my client’s staff can operate the live chat, I just receive a copy of the contacts for tracking because I install the software. When a customer starts a live chat session, they put in their name and email which is tracked. I don’t care who operates the live chat (me or the client) because the contact info is captured. It also helps conversions because few businesses in this industry use live chat and customers often want questions answered asap.
This is a new approach for me and I’m sure I’ll be tweaking it as I go along. Some things will work and other approaches will fail. I’ll just track, test, and tweak.
65 admin // Jul 13, 2011 at 11:10 am
Hey guys
For some reason WP is crapping out on me in regards to comments stuck in moderation. Getting an internal 500 server error when I try to approve them.
So don’t worry, I’m not ignoring comments, I just literally can’t get them approved. I’ll probably have to do it in phpmyadmin.
(I really need to transfer this domain to my another host. Never use 1and1, they blow chunks).
-Chris
66 Tom // Jul 13, 2011 at 11:20 am
I am just starting to look into this as well. I can’t wait to read part 2. How long until that comes?
67 admin // Jul 13, 2011 at 11:21 am
@hil,
Sounds like you’ve got it all figured out.
The fact is, regardless of what you think, people DO subscribe for more information about high-ticket purchases, and lead-gen formats work superbly in high net worth verticals.
I also run lead-gen campaigns targeted at investors regarding fractional apartment ownership, REIT’s, etc. and they will go through forms like no tomorrow.
As for Forex – are you kidding?
Every single forex course/platform/system out there is a valid keyword. It’s called the conduit method. You should try it sometime.
Not to mention there’s a crapload of “real” trading offices around the globe as well, all of which get searched.
As for competition on the local level – yes, of course there are other people to compete with.
But UNLIKE traditional markets – we’re not talking about 800 affiliates.
We’re talking about MAYBE 50 offices, at most, and only in the world’s largest cities.
You’re telling me you can’t outrank 50 sites?
Do you realize how much competition there is in “normal” affiliate markets?
-Chris
68 Ryan // Jul 13, 2011 at 11:43 am
We are actively working on rolling out a few “Resource” sites in local markets and we have tossed around the idea of working with some businesses on a percentage commission of sales. Personally, I think this business model is risky and would require air-tight agreements, attorneys, and accountants to review on a quarterly basis all sales generated from our work. Not exactly the way I want to invest my time but maybe there is a way to do this (Chris – do you have any docs you could share with us on how you are entering into these arrangements?). You would really really have to trust the company you enter into this arrangement with.
Selling exclusive leads and partnering up with 1 local company is less risky and easier on everyone. The client is still paying for performance and if you dont deliver quality leads after 60 or 90 days, the client can walk and you can go find someone else to partner with. Still need good agreements in place but tracking and managing this process is a lot easier.
I have been in the internet marketing business for 4 years and primarily focus on marketing for clients (local businesses) and this is by far and away the best business model out there and combine that with building out Resource Lead Gen sites and you have a mult-million dollar enterprise awaiting you. We have built out affiliate sites as well, but there is so much competition and sales are small compared to a local attorney who is willing to invest $7,500/mth or more in organic marketing services with us or selling leads to a mortgage company.
Great post Chris. You got me motivated to roll out another one of these sites.
Ryan
69 admin // Jul 13, 2011 at 4:57 pm
One thing I’ve really got to make clear is that paperwork is one thing, and trust is another.
No matter how strong your contract is with someone, if they’re an asshole, they’ll find a way.
I think the key is twofold:
1) Own and control all IP. Sites, domains, lists – everything.
2) Work with good people that you like, and ideally who you know personally.
It is a lot harder to screw someone over when they can drive to your house.
I know that’s not always possible and obviously limits scale, but WHEN & WHERE possible, it is ideal.
-Chris
70 Carlton // Jul 14, 2011 at 5:40 am
This is awesome and just up my street. I have a property site that I have been running for about 4 years and recently I was thinking that I need to look at monitizing it a lot better because I am sure I am leaving thousands on the table each month.
I will be doing the general thing of checking out what my main competition sell or which affiliate offers they promote, but what you have just talked about gives me a whole new angle.
Done right, there is huge potential. And when you put in the equation that most people dont’ actually know what they are doing, then competition isn’t even an issue.
Thanks
I look forward to the next episode.
71 Ron // Jul 14, 2011 at 5:41 am
Hi Chris,
What about all that Google local Map+pinpoints? it’s taking over the 1st page of Google, doen’t it “hurt” local traffic?
Ron
72 Jonathan Lake // Jul 14, 2011 at 9:12 am
Hi Chris,
Same as most people here – its great to see you writing gain and to hear what you have been up to.
Wow! Your lead gen startegies are awesome and I can see a ton of ideas there. Part of my online Business is with local business so this gels really well.
Cheers
Jonathan
73 Tom // Jul 14, 2011 at 10:14 am
Great to hear from you again Chris! Your posts are always to the point and full of good stuff!! I look forward to Part 2!
Tom
74 Ameen // Jul 14, 2011 at 4:40 pm
“Ameen,
Sorry to burst your intellectual bubble but:
1) It’s based on State/Provincial bylaws
2) THAT IS WHY YOU PARTNER WITH A LICENSED BROKER, who then pays you for marketing services on contingency or flat rate per referral.
3) Worst-case scenario, you open a holding company that registers with the securities board as a lead-generation entity.
Nice try though”
I actually got hate mail for writing that this idea will not work with realtors and mortgage brokers in an earlier comment
WOW.
I dont care if you dont believe me. But you are still incorrect.
1. There is no state that allows real estate brokers to pay a referral fee to anyone who does not have an active real estate license. Same with mortgage brokers.
2. No competent real estate or mortgage broker will pay you a commission because they could lose their license since it is AGAINST THE LAW IN ALL 50 STATES. If it was not, we would have already been doing it.
Look it up. I know because I have trained over 10,000 mortgage broker over the past few years.
The only way this works with those industries is to sell leads which you would have a hard time getting more than $100 for.
Any other business, like medical or cosmetic surgery would be candidates, but I dont know about those so don’t quote me.
75 admin // Jul 14, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Ameen,
Entities can be licensed, and you can form one WITH a licensed broker.
That’s how all the franchise brokerages work.
They are licensed. Brokers work for them. And yes, they DO get a cut of the commission. Every broker in the US or Canada alike working under a franchise indeed pays out a % of their commission to their franchise (for example Century 21, Re/Max, etc.)
I’m not talking about forming a slash-dash arrangement. Obviously, you do your homework and figure out a way to make it work legally.
Yes, it takes setup and likely chatting with a lawyer.
And worst case scenario is you sell leads on a tiered structure based on client-type.
(Or, just spend a few weekends of your life getting licensed yourself. Is that really so hard? No.)
Furthermore, this isn’t limited to the world of real estate or mortgages. There is plenty of opportunity outside of that scope.
For example, Finder’s Fees for investment funds, real estate projects, etc.
It’s too bad you received hatemail, and that’s obviously not something I condone or approve of.
However, perhaps we’re both guilty here of painting with a broad brush.
My take on it is “do what you have to do, because it’s worth it”.
Yours seems to be “this is impossible”.
It’s not.
-Chris
76 admin // Jul 14, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Also, yes it is based on State/Provincial bylaws.
Every state has a different set of treatments under referral regulations for various transactions.
For example, in California there are exemptions under RESPA that are not restricted to licensed persons receiving commission:
http://www.sbaor.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=78
(See Question #9)
-Chris
77 admin // Jul 14, 2011 at 6:16 pm
I was going to be clarifying this end of it in Part Two, but (actually thanks to Ameen) I realize that there’s some dangerous confusion that the blog post might cause in it’s current form.
So I’ve updated the section where I talk about transaction kickbacks under “Magnitude”.
-Chris
78 Greg // Jul 15, 2011 at 6:23 am
Wow, very intriguing. People would pay A LOT for this knowledge. How compatible do you think this method is with paid traffic, especially media buys?
79 Jeremy // Jul 15, 2011 at 11:21 am
The people who whine about the extra “work” and “hassle” in identifying and complying with stuff like RESPA are precisely the kind of people who need to go back to their 9-5 and quit wasting the rest of our time.
Everything in business requires some effort, some where.
If you are promised a “system” where the only thinking and work you have to do is find your credit card and properly read off the numbers to their operator on the phone, then you are a mark for their con.
80 John // Jul 15, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Chris:
Outstanding info! There is a huge demand out there for lead gen on a local level. And I agree, you have to maintain control over the IP, domains, ads, videos. I route all of the leads routed through Kall8 and get a printout at the end of the month over how many leads go to my clients. I also have them pay via Paypal. No more picking up checks or “checks in the mail” stories. If they cancel the payment, I stop the leads via Kall8.
Going back to your post, Chris, you mentioned setting up a “virtual” Google Places listing. I thought Google shut that down now by nixing phone verification. What is your work around for that? Do you rent a UPS box?
Can’t wait for the next installment.
John
81 Paul // Jul 18, 2011 at 10:09 am
“(I really need to transfer this domain to my another host. Never use 1and1, they blow chunks).”
At least I can say I discovered something before you Chris.
Awaiting Part 2…
82 Amy // Jul 19, 2011 at 1:44 pm
hit it on the nose, sick and tired of putting up site after site to make a few bucks a month. Would much rather have larger transactions with far less daily grind work like writing articles about stuff that is not interesting, to me anyway. Looking forward to the rest.
83 Jerry // Jul 26, 2011 at 7:08 am
Chris,
Great to hear from you again and I’ll add fuel to the flame of compliments…
As always, you’re in an elite league where few reside. First class – as always.
Hit me if you’re ever in my area. I have plenty of Monte #2′s waiting for us.
Jerry
LearnGuitarFastAndEasy.com
84 Jeff // Jul 28, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Chris,
I have good contacts for some of these niches, but really suck at the tech side of things….especially SEO. Do you have good contacts to outsource that side of things so I can concentrate on setting up the business models?
thanks,
Jeff
85 Jon // Sep 22, 2011 at 8:32 am
Great info Chris
As a local marketer in the UK where small Businesses do not entertain spending any money on a web presence it seems! this will be a great new avenue to look into.
Cheers
Jon
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