Hey guys,
As promised – here’s a look behind the curtain of my own campaigns in the “Final Frontier”…
I’ll start off by simply posting the screenshots with brief explanations, and then I’ll describe the mechanics – and “master plan” – below.
So take a look at how much we’re processing – and with how LITTLE traffic…
A Snapshot of My Results in the Final Frontier
Sample Campaign: Specialty Mortgage Leads, in Canada.
How much traffic, exactly? Well, we have a few sites that reach the Canadian market, with more on the way as we speak. One site (MAKO-driven) currently averages around 200 uniques a day, but that is far and away the highest traffic performer, due to the long-tail traffic (traffic currently comes in from about 2,600 unique keywords – the site is still building its foundation).
The average of our other sites though is more like 7 – 15 visitors a day.
One site in particular hits that range pretty much dead-on, and just because it’s a bit more of a “personal” site, it actually generates nearly as many leads as our leading MAKO (directory) site. From 1/20th the traffic. (Personalizing – which I’ll go over a bit further down – is huge.)
Anyway, here’s a bunch of screenshots, sampling lead-flow and some examples of above-average leads…
It’s Not Often Somebody’s as Proud of Traffic Like This:
(Traffic from our best-converting lead gen site, captures REFI & reverse mortgage leads in Canada)
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…But it Brings in Consistent, Quality Leadflow like Clockwork…
(And yes, I’m just using Aweber to handle/store leads. It works just fine, we simply set it up to email us notifications when new leads come in. My biz partner calls each lead within 20 minutes of coming in, unless it’s 3 AM, etc.)
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Sample REFI/Reverse Mortgage Lead #1:
($600K equity estimated, with no mortgage balance. There’s a lot to work with here, and credit is almost a non-factor, since it’s all secured by equity. If they want a reverse mortgage, they can get up to 40% of confirmed equity. If they want a REFI or line of credit, basically it’s whatever they’re comfortable with, and that’s when the credit rating matters since it effects interest rate.)
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Sample REFI/Reverse Mortgage Lead #2:
($1.2 Million Equity, $40K mortgage balance. This could just be a massive deal for all involved.)
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Sample REFI/Reverse Mortgage Lead #3:
(And here’s one for $2MM, and zero mortgage balance. It doesn’t get much bigger until you get into higher end commercial…)
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And Here’s Some Sample Lead-Flow From One of Our Other Canadian Mortgage Campaigns (Challenged-Credit, Self-Employed, Investors, Private Funding, etc.)…
(We use the Instant-Leads application to handle these ones, but we could just as easily use Aweber here also…)
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Sample Creative Finance/Commercial Lead #1:
(The screenshot obviously cuts out the personal identifiers, but in this case a commercial investor on Canada’s East Coast wants to pull $400K out in equity, secured against his $1.5MM commercial building.)
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Sample Creative Finance/Commercial Lead #2:
(This is a classic challenge-credit deal, where it will probably take some creative financing to make it fly. The guy has a solid income, likely self-employed or highly-paid in the oilfield would be my guess – since it’s an Alberta lead. But poor credit is going to be a problem with traditional lenders, and if he’s self-employed as well, income verification can be a tough hurdle if he’s reducing his income too much with aggressive accounting/tax filing.
This type of situation is one where there’s definitely options, but they won’t be cheap – and it’s the “creative” solutions that can yield serious draw as a broker.)
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So folks… that’s just a small snapshot of what we’ve got going on in the “Frontier”.
I’m more or less pulling back the curtain a bit for two reasons:
1) To show you what’s really possible in terms of quality leadflow, even from “nothing” traffic in many cases, and
2) To show you how much money changes hands in these industries every day – and that all it takes to “capture” a section of that market is to simply get visible.
So yes – this really is just like “regular” affiliate marketing, but we’re not dealing with $39.95 transactions. Some of these, as you’ve seen, can literally be in the millions.
It’s an entirely different playing-field.
Speaking of which…
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This is the REAL Reason I’m Now “Playing” in These Markets…
Here’s my endgame with all this stuff, folks. The master plan, if you will.
While the revenues can be pretty staggering in these kinds of markets, and you can certainly generate an absolute killing just by controlling the leadflow in high-magnitude markets – as with most businesses – you make the most money when you EXIT.
Selling the farm, as it were.
Not only from a numbers perspective, but also (at least where I’m from), a tax perspective. You see, when you sell a business as a Canadian, it’s treated as an asset. Therefore, that influx of cash is a capital gain. And only half of the sale amount is applied to your income bracket when you file taxes on it.
That means that if you sell something for $1MM, or whatever, $500K is absolutely tax free. Yours. And even if your tax rate on the other $500K is 50%, (which is insane, the top bracket where I live is about 44%) you still end up walking with 75% of the total. So in this example, $750K.
Do you know how long it takes to bank $750K, even if you’re personally earning, say, $500K a year?
After accounting for income tax (the big one), lifestyle/living costs, carrying costs, unforeseen crap, etc. – saving $150K or more a year at that level would be impressive. And that’s if you’re earning half a mill a year, consistently.
That’s 5 years of saving with a vengeance. And that’s assuming that things don’t change (and they do). And really, that’s still less than $1 Million in savings. Sounds great? Not when it takes earning $2.5 MM in pre-tax profit to get there…
Now…
What if you built and sold businesses, once every 2 years, for about 2.5 times the annual projected revenue – OR – otherwise an equivalent that will net the buyer a solid ROI?
Again, let’s use the 5 year time frame.
Let’s assume that, again, you can generate $500K a year in profit, pre-tax, with each business. I know I’m oversimplifying this, but in this case, you’d be looking at a combined “payday” from both sell-offs of around $2.5MM as a capital gain, if we assume that we can sell each biz for around the 2.5X annual multiplier.
Which means that at the very worst, you would keep, after tax, just shy of $2 Million. That is more than double what you’d have if you just “made a shitload of money online” and tried to save as much as you could. Trust me… I’m well acquainted with the horrible tax sting of just doing the latter.
And – that’s just using the revenue multiplier equation.
What if we shift this a little, and think about the buyer’s perspective…
Now, it’s one thing to sell some big-ass, cash-printing affiliate site in a popular market like fitness, consumer software, public records, etc. You can certainly bring in some nice capital gains by doing so, but your multiplier ALL depends on ROI.
And how much money is really on the table when you’re talking about $40 products, or even $400 lifetime customer values? Even if your site draws in 2,000 visitors a day, or you have an opt-in list of 50K subscribers – what’s that really worth if your niche is “Learn Guitar”, or “Lose Weight”?
Well, it’s probably worth a nice tidy sum – but it’s not worth a fortune. And NOT because of the traffic, or even your revenues. It’s because you’re probably pretty-much maxing out the possible ROI from your visitors to begin with. Your buyer can only expect to see slight gains ahead of what you’re already yielding. For them, it’s an equation of cash-flow vs. risk.
This is why the “12 month rule” is pretty standard when people sell affiliate-driven and AdSense sites on places like Flippa. Yes, some people can sell them off for 2 years rev, or more, but it’s not the norm.
BUT –
What about markets where each customer has an average lifetime value (for businesses at the direct-supply level) of say… $10K? Or $100K?
For example – what would an aggressive direct-lender pay for an entire network of sites generating active leadflow EVERY SINGLE DAY? What’s it worth to them to fund an additional $50 Million (or whatever) in mortgages every year?
Or what about a 5,000 strong opt-in list of responsive day-traders who like receiving your newsletter, and actually act on your recommendations? What’s that worth to an IPO/promotional firm? Or even an investment division of a major bank?
The answer to both scenarios is – MILLIONS.
The effective ROI for a top-of-the-food-chain business in a “Magnitude” industry will undoubtedly realize millions of dollars in newfound revenue from a fresh source of consistent leadflow.
(Think about it. What’s one single mortgage worth to a lender whose borrower sticks with them for the entire duration of a home loan? What – about double the price of the house?)
So here’s the big difference… and the reason why I’m so passionate about the Final Frontier.
You don’t sell your business based on what YOU can make.
You sell it based on what the BUYER will… which can be staggering, even if you effectively guarantee a 500% ROI in the first 5 years for them, based on your historical and projected leadflow.
And best of all…
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It’s NOT Saturated! (Yet)
Wanna see an example of this in living color?
Head over to Google and type in:
* parking lots for sale
With or without quotation marks, doesn’t matter.
How many exact-match domains do you see?
How many aggressive affiliates do you see setting up linkwheels, blasting out thousands of articles & press releases, etc?
How many root domains do you see targeting that specific title tag?
CURRENTLY – ZERO.
This is a million-dollar keyword. This makes keywords like “registry cleaner” look like a freakin’ lemonaid stand. It gets 4K searches per month. And it’s GEO-friendly. There’s hundreds of variant geo-handles you can target as well (“parking lots for sale in los angeles”, etc.). You could literally build the pre-eminent authority AND leadflow source in a major sector of the commercial real estate world.
Just by setting up a 3-page site with an exact-match domain, focused title tags, and building 20 backlinks. You could pull in leads for both investor-financing and real estate.
And there’s thousands of other keywords like it.
Literally, just fill in the blank:
“[Big Expensive Thing] for sale”
“[Big Expensive Thing] for sale in new york”,
Etcetera.
Then you set up a network of sites targeting the major scope of keywords in that sector, and just start driving leads. Hook up and ally with brokers/agents as needed to help your visitors, but really – what you’re doing is:
1) Building a pre-eminent force in a market where millions of $$ change hands every day
2) Building an uber-valuable lead-base that you can tap any time you want (or that your future buyer can…)
3) And then selling it off to someone who can pay you $XM, and then turn around and make $XXM for themselves.
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Proof of Concept?
Well, aside from the fact that I see people spending $20/click (happily) and racking up $80,000 PER DAY Adwords bills in some of these markets on places like KeywordSpy.com – the proof is inside these industries themselves.
I was first exposed to this kind of buyout-insanity last year, when I was trying to set up a membership site with a investment banker who previously worked with Merril Lynch. Basically, I was just completely and utterly floored at the kind of money his colleagues were happily willing to pay just for SOLO MAILOUTS to an investor list.
Responsiveness was the key – but I remember my jaw hitting the floor when a broker was looking to spend $850,000 just to send a one-off IPO promotion to a list that averaged an open rate of at least 10,000 responsive traders.
(In our market, a solo sendout to a list of 10K subscribers is worth what… maybe $3K? At the most?)
And when these guys would buy up intellectual property, it was beyond staggering.
From that point forward – as well as after my experience with “Rick the Realtor” (look back in last-year’s blog posts) – my view of what’s really possible with the “affiliate marketing” model drastically changed.
And it’s very much the same within the mortgage industry, the merchant service industry, etc. These are things I’ve seen first hand, and I’m sure many of my readers have as well within their own respective industries (and perhaps in a past career-life).
It’s not about the “traffic”, or “12 months revenue”. It’s about what someone can easily make, quickly, from your resources.
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No Matter How You Shake It…
This is Unquestionably the Final Frontier.
And, as I’ve shown above… it’s more than possible.
No, it’s not as “automatic” as traditional affiliate marketing. Yes, this takes some setup – and yes, there are some legal issues to consider when you start playing within the realm of regulated industries.
If you can get a cut of the transaction itself – awesome. You’ll make a killing. If not – you’ll still make a killing. Just set up a marketing service contract that gets renegotiated every month based on the client’s overall sense of ROI. Or hell, just sell the leads as a flat fee.
Because at the end of the day – when the EXIT is your true goal – who really cares what the current setup is?
The fact is – especially since these are current NOT markets saturated by the mainstream affiliates – potential buyers will see your network of sites as a force to be reckoned with. You may not realize this, but your skills as an affiliate are MASSIVELY VALUABLE when applied to Magnitude markets.
Not only in terms of leadflow and massive-value client lists, but also in terms of TIME. Major businesses usually prefer acquisitions to boot-strapping. It’s faster and easier. It’s not like selling to another webmaster. It’s actually the furthest thing in the world, from that.
Is it “brainless”?
No.
Is it “easy”?
Well, the ranking bit probably is. But the other stuff does take groundwork. (Hint: Rank first, then reach out. Much easier to ask someone if they can take on your existing leadflow that you “don’t know what to do with”).
Is finding a buyer “guaranteed”?
Nope. But at the same time, it’s just the law of supply and demand. When a business is hungry, and the ROI makes sense – it’s a matter of simple logic.
But I know for myself – this is the route I’m going to continue following with my “affiliate” campaigns. And from what we’ve generated already, and from what I know is possible first-hand, there’s simply no turning back…
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Oh yeah… How could I forget…
We actually developed a CMS specifically for building sites of this purpose.
It was originally going to be the equivalent of “Affiliate Genie Enterprise Edition”. An authority site builder, database-driven, and designed solely for professional styling mated with ultimate conversion.
Built-in, Aweber-supported lead gen form builder.
Built-in split testing panels.
Professional themeing for the express purpose of building sites that can EASILY pass the “trust test” as being an established local business.
The original idea was to do a full-on product launch. Hitting clickbank, rounding up the big mailers… etc. The whole shabang.
That all changed once we started getting more involved with “Magnitude Marketing”. As soon as we started seeing the results really start to come in, rolling out another “Affiliate Genie” didn’t really stir our souls, in comparison.
Therefore, we’re not going to put it on the market. To support another long-term CMS product would be detrimental to our current projects, particularly our own Magnitude campaigns.
However – because it truly is the cat’s ass when it comes to quickly deploying lead-gen sites (in any market), or even massive authority sites in standard affiliate markets, there’s no sense in not sharing it with my customers. Plus, since Matt (my JV partner on that project) was the one who put in the hundreds of hours coding it from the ground up, it just sort of seems like a waste just to use it ourselves.
So here’s what we’re gonna do:
1) Tomorrow (or shortly thereafter) I’ll show you a real site we are presently building with our “Magnitude” CMS, and go into complete detail as to what it does.
2) Shortly thereafter, we will sell this to a maximum of 300 people – OR – 72 hours. Whatever comes first.
3) All the orders will actually be sent straight to Matt (just a headsup if you see a different order page than usual), since he’s the one who developed it, and
4) That’s all she wrote. You’ll never see it again.
Cool?
Stay tuned for a detailed breakdown of what this thing actually does – as well as a live example of a Magnitude site that we are literally building as we speak, with said CMS.
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Congratulations!
You’ve successfully made it to the end of my gargantuan blog post/novel.
I hope it’s sparked a few ideas, and hopefully, at the very least enlightened you to a whole new world of possibility on the net.
Who knew that it was the same amount of ranking effort to become a dominant player in an industry where the average customer is worth $10K+…
…as it is to rank on page 14 for “best acne removal cream”.
Take care – and stay tuned.
-Chris
P.S. Yes, I’m showing you a real, actual site of mine in the next day or so. Please have the creativity and common decency to NOT copy my content, nor try to set up an identical site.
I do actively send out DMCA notices to hosts (if I have to).
59 responses so far ↓
1 Mark // Jul 18, 2011 at 10:47 pm
This is very interesting! I am in the Mtg business myself, and I have been trying to capture basically short form applications, and then follow up on them. Are you basically just giving away a free report, and then following up to see if you can help them? Seems a bit different than what I am doing…maybe I am missing something?
2 admin // Jul 18, 2011 at 11:25 pm
Hi Mark
That’s basically it, yes. We pretty much abandoned the long-form online app. At the end of the day you need real paperwork anyway for the deal to close, so it’s better to get on the phone ASAP and get the deal moving.
The easier it is for them to make contact, the better. In the one campaign, it’s reverse mortgages, which are a new concept to a lot of folks – and therefore education and information are key.
You could do the same thing with other mortgage offers, but I find the “Quick Quote” style short-form will be just as effective with the right verbiage.
Traditionally, lead-gen campaigns have to “qualify” so that the advertiser can cut the fat, but at the expense of conversion. It’s then up to the marketer to counteract with more traffic to account for “lost leads”, people that scare off at the sight of a 50-field longform.
With our sites we could care less. My guy can qualify a lead in 30 seconds on the phone anyway, and the (huge) boost in conversion is well worth the odd tire-kicker.
Some of our forms have 6 fields total. Basically the important thing is just 1) what they need 2) are they Canadian (or correct province), and 3) phone #
That’s it.
The absolute most important thing though is calling IMMEDIATELY.
Within 15 minutes of delivery. We have things set up so the form submissions ping a dedicated Gmail account that’s connected to my guy’s iPhone. He gets the leads in real-time, and follows up pretty much instantly.
-Chris
3 Internet Specialist Mark // Jul 19, 2011 at 1:39 am
Hey Chris
It’s funny how this model is like the oldest thing out there and yet from the comments on your previous post, there still seems to be doubters on the model.
It seems pretty clear from your examples in this post that there is money to be made in this “low” volume markets.
We have quite a few insurance based websites that were monetized through Angie’s List or other various CPA programs, but after reading your last post, decided to try and JV with a few locals. Still need to optimize our conversions more and work on the guide we’d give out in exchange for information but so far, even with the fewer leads, already the few commission we have received has eclipsed what we had earned for the whole lifetime earnings of the site!
Hmm, I guess what you’re saying is true
Gotta keep tweaking it and now we’re building more of these to maximize! The tip about setting up a Gmail linked to a smart phone is golden!
Thanks for reminding us the simplicity in the model and using a little creativity to get the most out of what we already do
Regards,
Mark
4 Rich Peck // Jul 19, 2011 at 4:05 am
Big question Chris,
Are you making money from those leads you’re generating? I can sense that you’re not selling the leads but working with Rick to share any profits you may make from them.
I got my own idea for this now
You’re still my favourite marketer!
Rich
5 Chris // Jul 19, 2011 at 10:16 am
Chris, you’ve laid it out on a platter for everyone to see. I’d ask you to take this down because the info is pure gold, but most people simply won’t put in the (minimal) effort required to make something like this work.
I’m starting my first local lead-gen/profit sharing site and am incredibly excited to see what happens. Will it be perfect at first? No way, but in business, you got to get out there and do. Fail fast and fail often. But do something.
Thanks for the truly invaluable content!
6 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 11:44 am
@ Mark #3 – That’s awesome man, right on. It definitely works, that’s for sure
@ Rich – It took some corporate creativity (and sitting down with a capable lawyer), but I’m a part owner in a licensed corporation that I’ve set up with my business partner (broker) in this project, which is a subsidiary of an actual standalone brokerage.
So yeah… let’s just say it’s not traditional leadgen
Thanks for dropping by man
@ Chris #5 – Thanks man! I agree that 99% will see this and either have doubts or think it’s too much effort.
And that’s totally okay. For the few that act – the uptake on something like this is going to be insane if properly executed.
-Chris
7 Jesus // Jul 19, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Chris, my head is spinning (positively) from this post. I’m printing it right now in case you regret posting it.
Thanks for the awesome info and I’ll keep an eye out for the CMS.
8 Leah // Jul 19, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Chris,
I have a lead management site (see above) that does everything except build websites. Both wouldn’t be overkill would it? What about MAKO Dominator – wouldn’t that make a good lead generator too?
9 Dave // Jul 19, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Looking forward to tomorrows email.
How small is too small when targeting different cities?
10 Jonathan Lake // Jul 19, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Wow Chris
This looks awesome. I am looking forward to spending a couple of days doing some in depth research here in the UK at some high ticket possibilities.
Thanks again and I look forward to the next instalment
Jonathan
11 SEO Consultant // Jul 19, 2011 at 12:50 pm
Man you are awesome! I don’t know how I didn’t think of this sooner especially since I know a good friend who manages a network of independent mortgage brokers. Look forward to seeing the CMS…
12 Al // Jul 19, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Hey Chris,
Would you say it’s possible to “translate” “Magnitude” CMS into language other than English? I’d like to use it in a non-English speaking country.
Thanks!
13 Caleb // Jul 19, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Chris,
In your other post you mentioned “Google Places is where it’s at” — will this CMS help with that?
Thanks,
Caleb
14 Bryce Woodard // Jul 19, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Look forward to seeing the site you are building. I wouldn’t mind building a network of sites knowing there could be a big life changing payday at the end. Good stuff thanks for sharing
15 Miles Scott // Jul 19, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Chris,
I have a site up (first in a series of like ideas) and I am wanting to take it to next level..this may be the way. I agree with you, in my past life I was an owner in a mortgage brokerage that aggregated and sold to the secondary market – and took the arbitrage. Throughout the process, I viewed hundreds of portfolios of various mortgaged products.
I’ll be printing and saving this .. and waiting to see your next installment.
16 Gmail2SP // Jul 19, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Hi, Chris!
Fresh from watching UK Phone Hacking enquiry
so forgive for asking how do you link Gmail to
a smart phone?
And does it have to be a Smart Phone or any
phone could do?
Thanks.
17 Mikael // Jul 19, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Hey Chris,
When you say [Big Expensive Thing], what would the minimum be? 50K, 100K, 500K ?
Also, when you say that “parking lots for sale” gets 4k visitors, we’re talking “broad match”, right?
Cool post!
/Mikael
18 Amy // Jul 19, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Looking forward to seeing the site example. You’re right, did the search on parking lots in my area and looks like easy pickins. Basically building a lead gen piece of online real estate to let mature and monitize later. Makes sense to me.
19 Brad // Jul 19, 2011 at 2:59 pm
Hi Chris,
I live in Canada too and am interested in your capital gains strategy. I run my affiliate business through an incorporated company, but it sounds like you are saying you need to create a new business entity complete with it’s own accounting processes for each website you sell to treat it as capital gains, correct?
Or is there a way to treat multiple website sales as a capital gain while still running all the revenue etc through a single company?
20 Markus // Jul 19, 2011 at 3:01 pm
I hear ya… Chris.
I tapped into this for life insurance.
But I am noticing the Real Estate and investment have higher purchase prices.
Looking forward to your offer.
Excellent stuff as always my friend.
21 Alexander // Jul 19, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Chris, apparently you’re not just the lazy marketer, but the lazy millionaire
Thank you for sharing.
22 Buy Foreclosured Homes // Jul 19, 2011 at 3:11 pm
Hey Chris,
Just wondering how well the model would work outside of a local duristiction ( state or country ) for us “affiliates”. The reason I ask is where I live now the ecomony is gone to crap ( little to no lending being done by bank for personal or commercial loans – yep I kid you not ) so would it be possible to work with say brokers in other areas with this type of model or would that be just too difficult to try and mange.
I hear you loud on clear on this type of business model and as you say ranking these network sites would ne so much easier than we probably are used to –
Great post
LOC
23 Don // Jul 19, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Chris,
Will this new CMS work for building multi- landing page sites.
I’ve been looking for a way to build out a lead capture site based on
http://www.mainkeyword. com
and then adding
http://www.mainkeyword. com/state/city
Or, would Affiliate Genie be a better choice?
24 terrance // Jul 19, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Great content as always. Will the CMS you’re referring to, have to be used or will another small business lead gen CMS be ok as well. I was thinking of something similar to this as well. I was wondering why it couldn’t work with very high net worth types of deals. Thanks for the confirmation!
25 Frank // Jul 19, 2011 at 3:44 pm
Does it really matter what CMS you use? As long as you get it ranked and have a lead-gen or optin form on the page couldn’t you just use WordPress or an .html template?
26 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Hey guys – the CMS isn’t “required” by any means, it’s just that conversion *really* matters when you’re talking about low traffic volume.
We’ve found that professional, “local” looking sites fare much better than boilerplate landing pages, WP themes, generic sites, etc.
-Chris
27 Chris // Jul 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Chris, I’d love to hear more about personalizing the websites. I understand adding a header image with perhaps a recognizable landmark from the city, but do you have any other advice?
In my content/articles, I plan on mentioning city landmarks where appropriate, but nothing that will really stand out to the casual reader. What else can you say about site personalization?
Thanks!
28 Robertino @ Quit Smoking One // Jul 19, 2011 at 4:17 pm
I see one domain.
Just type this into Big G’s slit, and hit ENTER :
inurl:parkinglotsforsale.com
29 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Robertino…
That’s a parked domain. The only thing that comes up is in G’s index is an archived dynamic URL.
The point I’m making is the actual competition for the search phrase itself.
-Chris
30 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 4:23 pm
@Chris, #27
Personalization – what I really mean by this is building “personal” sites that directly represent an individual broker/professional – not just a faceless site.
Makes a huge difference in conversion.
The video I release shortly (demonstrating the CMS) showcases a “personalized” site…
-Chris
31 Robertino @ Quit Smoking One // Jul 19, 2011 at 5:20 pm
OK, admin Chris.
That’s what I meant. Only/Just one site doing nothing.
I probably should have written something like : “I see *just* one *unused*domain.”
Blame it on my DutchEnglish.
32 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Ah, I see. No worries, I thought you were making a counter-point.
Cheers
33 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 6:06 pm
@ Brad, #19 – re: websites and capital gains, etc.
You’ll need to run the specifics of that by an accountant, but in general, and from what I understand, capital gains apply to most business assets, regardless of your own biz structure.
Much like how selling a revenue property that you personally own will trigger a capgain (if you sell for more than you purchased).
Websites are intangible property, and this comes down to whether CRA will view the sale of such a property as an actual sale-of-asset, or as a “product”.
(Much like the difference between selling an investment property now and then VS building homes on spec and selling volumes of them – one is a legitimate capital gain, the other is treated as though it’s a product sale and treated as income).
So the question – in my opinion – would be this:
1) Is your website(s) an actual revenue-producing business?
2) OR are you just building and flipping?
Again – you need to get really clear on this with a chartered acct, but business structure is beside the point.
Websites are comparable to investment properties, regardless of the holding company or corp structure.
HOWEVER –
There is the issue of one’s lifetime capital gain “personal allowance”, which I believe allows an individual who is selling a business to keep the first $750K of the sale tax free, where the rest of the business sale is subject to capital gains tax. (That number may not be accurate, but it’s something like that, in that range).
And I believe that you can only claim your personal “allowance” or whatever they call it on eligible capital gains, such as selling a corporation.
So what I’d suggest – and if it’s in line with what your accountant says – is that, for a project like this, you form a separate corporation anyway, just so that the hand-off to whoever the eventual buyer will be is going to be a little more seamless.
The corp would then own the network of sites you would build in a Magnitude-market.
Plus, in the meantime it makes it easier to keep money in the business, there’s less liability, etc.
Again, please assume that I am as knowledgeable as a dog when it comes to the legalities of tax laws or corp structure – and be sure to consult someone who actually knows what they’re doing (Chartered Accountant) before setting up anything.
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR OTHER READERS:
The above comment pertains to Canadian tax laws only. The US system is far more complicated and totally different regarding the handling of capital gains.
Unless you’re Canadian – this doesn’t apply to you.
-Chris
34 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 6:15 pm
@ Leah, #8 – Yep, either of those systems would work great.
MAKO isn’t overkill necessarily, it’s just a lot of initial setup.
-Chris
35 paul // Jul 19, 2011 at 7:29 pm
You bastard!
You beat me to it..I’ve been doing this for the last few years part time (but not part-time earnings!) and was going to have my designer create a lead gen site template that I have found works great for local leads… just don’t have the time! Anxious to see yours soon…
I do a couple different sites. Some are personal and some are even local review sites (yea..1 person fills out usually 2 to 3 forms per visit)…I have cpa sites as well as profit sharing…
Just some advice for people…get contracts for everything. Businesses will take leads, make tons of money and act like they barely make any. Meaning – they’ll throw you a bone to keep the leads coming, but it wont be what you should have made.
When sharing commissions ( which is not allowed in many us states for mortgage brokers ), you need full access to their pipeline. Just seeing leads roll in is not enough…you need to see what deals have closed and how much they closed for.
Make it known that you can send these leads to another company in 3 mouse clicks if they try to screw you!
It’s much easier to determine the worth of a lead and sell them individually, but you can’t generate enough leads to make good money that way in local markets…u can nationally though!
So do what Chris did and partner up with someone you know and trust…but always keep that domain name yours!
Paul
36 admin // Jul 19, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Ha! Sorry Paul, I guess I am a bastard
That’s really awesome man, glad to hear it.
And I definitely agree re: contracts. Unless I implicitly trust someone, I follow up with the leads myself to see how things went.
It’s dual-purpose. Part of it is just making sure my leads got taken care of – which is just good business. In the event that they weren’t contacted or whatever, then I can send them to a better broker, etc.
But the other half is that it’s a safeguard. People will be a lot less likely to hold out on commissions if they KNOW you’re following up on it yourself.
Just use zero-tolerance contracts. One strike and they’re out.
Goodbye leadflow…
Thanks for sharing Paul, much appreciated
-Chris
37 Dean // Jul 19, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Hi Chris…is this similar to Mako which I have or something a little different. Just a little confused?
Dean.
38 Steve // Jul 19, 2011 at 8:41 pm
Thank you for the information I can’t wait to see the site you are going to show. I think I understand what you are talking about it is essentially local marketing with very big ticket items. It is an awesome idea and I can’t wait to see what you are going to share next. Thanks again Chris.
39 Leah // Jul 19, 2011 at 8:42 pm
No, Chris you are WRONG!! Dog? Huh? You aren’t even 30 yet are you?
I just have to point something out that I realized for the 2nd or 3rd time. Everyone is always (me too!) wants something new, always waiting for something better I guess.
Have you looked at the Lazy Marketer Affiliate Program lately? 75% – 100% Commission on The Best of The Best plus Over Kill to the Max. Every time I end up there I think the SAME thing so I thought I would say something this time.
If you want to make some money, here’s how you can quadruple your money and your list.
1) strategically choose the right Charity for your offer
2) Tell everyone (SUBTLE HINT: Big List Owners) you are donating 1/2 (print “BEFORE EXPENSES” in Big Red BOLD Letters)
3) Give out Boxes of NERDS with a Prize number on the top so people remember to sign up and download their prize.
4) Keep the other 1/2 which should be 4X more than if you weren’t so charitable. Keep records for tax deductions.
BONUS Benefit: Perfect for offline promotion You can SAVE NEWBIES from going broke running back and forth between the merry-go-round and the hamster wheel.
See what you Inspired, Chris? I rest my case.
40 Keri ; ) // Jul 19, 2011 at 8:54 pm
Hi Chris,
I have to re-read your post to make sure I get the basics because my country definately does not have capital gains tax – no, not even on sale of businesses!
I’m a little worried as I have no experience dealing with local businesses so I’m gonna print out some of the tips (like Paul’s). Hopefully I can find a few areas to go after.
41 Keri ; ) // Jul 19, 2011 at 11:50 pm
Me again,
I have limited (and not that successful) experience with affiliate marketing. Is this an area I should consider or is it more for people with networks already set up? Do you offer some coaching with the CMS – just thought I’d ask!
42 Franklin // Jul 20, 2011 at 2:33 am
Chris, I am inspired with some of the information you stated here on this page, amazing stuff! I think I just had another revelation of which way to turn in this business of online marketing, thanks again! This something I needed to read!
43 Nick Johnson // Jul 20, 2011 at 4:27 am
Hi Chris,
It reminds me of a story I heard about a real estate broker when ever he needed needed a cash injection apparently said” Ah well time to the New York Ritz again”
A few high value clients are worth a lot more than a 1000 lookie -lou’s. In my sales career the big bucks always came from two or three clients and the great thing was they were easier to handle as well.
Looking forward to the new launch, just hope I can afford it…
Nick
http://adultsantasuitsandcostumes.blogspot.com/
44 Tom @ Englisch Test Online // Jul 20, 2011 at 10:20 am
thanks for this wonderful 2 part series. I am still promoting low value products and services as an affiliate, but your posts made me think big. Had a sleepless night last night with lots of ideas taking form in my head. – Thanks for this inspiration.
About the legal stuff: watertight contracts are not only of utmost importance in big-business projects like yours, but also when you are a small time affiliate. Too often small affiliates get srewed, too. Even when the merchant is part of a reputable network. When you don’t have the possibility to audit, then you only have trust – or can switch to someone else.
Thanks again for the inspiration and now, please show us the site
45 Mike in NZ // Jul 20, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Chris
Even better strategy for New Zealand as we don’t have a capital gains tax
Cheers
Mike
46 Brian Stevens // Jul 20, 2011 at 9:03 pm
Interesting post. Great idea in theory.
The problem I see is that there is no search data for local keywords.
So how do you know what phrase people use when searching for something local??
Sure you could have
“[Big Expensive Thing] for sale”
But it could be:
buy Big Expensive Thing
purchase Big Expensive Thing
Big Expensive Thing online
Sale of Big Expensive Thing
Etcetera
And yes you can certainly put a Geo modifier in to the keyword phrase however this increases the keyword combination of course
“[Big Expensive Thing] for sale in new york”,
new york Big Expensive Thing for sale in
purchase Big Expensive Thing new york
Etcetera Etcetera
You end up with a million websites to cover keyword combinations for that one Big Expensive Thing
As for Real Estate I imagine most cities would have a mainstream directory for real Estate.
I know, no matter what real estate phrase you search for in the city I live in the majority of places on Google are taken up by a site called real estate.com which has a gazillion links to it from all the real estate agents that subscribe to its service.
Hey maybe I am totally full of the proverbial and if so feel free to tell me.
(but explain why)
47 Anthony // Jul 20, 2011 at 9:51 pm
Once again Chris awesome information.
I actually got my real estate license when I was 19 but a combination of being very quiet and a bad stint selling timeshare had made me just loathe the entire business until I started marketing online.
I actually did have a plan to start working with a realtor to get people looking at homes and then I take a cut but actually joint venturing with others?
It’s like you set my brain on fire in the best way possible. Nice too because I live in a pretty big city and competition for some keywords is basically at nil.
48 admin // Jul 20, 2011 at 11:19 pm
@ Keri & Mike from NZ – that’s awesome there’s no capgain tax in your country! Something I’d definitely encourage you to take advantage of, assuming it works the same way (talk to an accountant first)
—————-
@Brian #46,
I’m not sure what data source you’re referring to, but Google’s own Adwords Tool (free to use, you don’t even need an adwords acct) will most certainly display local data.
Your question about the variations of keywords and what they “could be” – doesn’t really hold water.
That’s the case with every single market that exists, local or otherwise. Everything in this business is an estimate.
If you really need to nail it down before forming an organic strategy, then just choose your “maybe” keywords and run a PPC campaign for a week, seeing what actually exists for traffic.
As for geo-possibilites, a million different keywords, etc. That’s a moot point, and again, applies to every single market in the world.
In any niche, there are millions of content/keyword angles. Instead of seeing that as a problem, you should see it as an angle.
So what?
Choose the top 5 cities and away you go. If it works out, then do another 5. Or whatever.
As for real estate, what you imagine and what actually IS are two very different things.
Look at my example on the blog. I’m really not sure how to make it any more obvious.
And I guarantee you that ranking for whatever real estate terms you want in your city will be 100 times easier than the competition we face traditionally in normal affiliate markets.
Lastly, you say “great idea in theory”.
This is well beyond a theory. Did you miss the first half of the post?
The one with all the active leads coming in?
It’s not a question of “if”. This is child’s play.
It’s a matter of setting up the right connection/JV so you can monetize what is currently low-hanging traffic.
Cheers
-Chris
49 Paul // Jul 21, 2011 at 5:20 am
Hi Chris
Inspiring post as always.
Do you list geo-targeted city sites in a Mako directory site?
BTW, love your reverse mortgage site. Looks like an AG formatted site.
Thanks for the share
Paul.
50 Tom @ Englisch Test Online // Jul 21, 2011 at 7:49 am
@Brian #46
“So how do you know what phrase people use when searching for something local??”
When you use a local qualifier, like city or county name together with the keyword, you should get localized searchphrases
51 Tom @ Englisch Test Online // Jul 21, 2011 at 8:01 am
@Brian #46 again (and other doubters)
Just did this for my the city were I live and it returned 801 results for ‘buy house cityname’ (w/o quotes). when you filter these keyphrases for those that really contain your cityname you have a good overview on what is searched for.
Now only identify those that are buying keywords and you are done.
Try it out – I now have 329 keyphrases with about 5,628,822 searches that I can play around with.
52 Mikael // Jul 21, 2011 at 11:09 pm
Hey Chris,
When you say [Big Expensive Thing], what would the minimum be? 50K, 100K, 500K ?
Also, when you say that “parking lots for sale” gets 4k visitors, we’re talking “broad match”, right?
/Mikael
53 Stephen // Jul 21, 2011 at 11:16 pm
So is the offer when it becomes available just for the CMS or will it also contain some marketing steps/ideas, how to deal with businesses (contracts), ideas of markets to go after, how to figure out pricing and stuff like that?
I think most marketers here could use a good WordPress template and make a very good looking and very well SEO optimized local site to gather leads.
Personally I guess I’m not very good trying to come up with a good list of potential industries to go after, understand the legal stuff, contracts, pricing and so on. Basically I could use help on the business model itself. I can build a blog, do keyword research and link the crap out of it to drive local traffic. It’s the details needed to make it all work where I’m at a loss.
-Stephen
54 John // Jul 22, 2011 at 2:37 am
Hi Chris,
Interesting post. Like Keri and posted above is this a product that a person who has no experience with lead gen could use? What type of support will be offered with it? I am based in Japan so would this be usable for me?
John
55 Leah // Jul 24, 2011 at 9:46 pm
Srephen #53 ” Basically I could use help on the business model itself.” Click on my name above and see if that’s what you mean.
It looks like no one system fits all and that only leaves people frustrated when they want to buy them all and won’t because it’s just not practical.
56 Cliff // Jul 26, 2011 at 11:08 am
Chris,
If the all the good extensions are gone for great keywords domain match – is it still valuable to pick up the .info if you are going to use tools like “actually rank” to rank the site or would it be better to add an additional modifers to the domain
57 Tom @ Englisch Test Online // Jul 26, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Hi Chris Admin,
on your sample site you write on the homepage:
“Call me RIGHT NOW, at 1-877-686-4246
Or, take a few seconds and fill out the Quick-Quote form below”
but there is NO form and no link to the form.
Adding it might help a little
Good luck with this project – gained lots of inspiration from it.
58 Mike // Jul 26, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Hey Chris,
Sounds great! Are the templates included or is there any up sells? Can you create your own graphics?
Are we going to need a phone number on these sites or is that just a lead to your affiliate?
Also, one more question! You state this is not for newbies. I’m not exactly a newbie. I can setup a WP site and get indexed and all but what is the hardest part about setting these up.
Is it just getting motivated and time consuming?
Thanks
59 Noel Ferguson // Jul 27, 2011 at 5:45 am
I’m in New Zealand. Will this work outside the USA/Canada?
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